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Player driven anti-cheat system that won't kill dev time

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Player driven anti-cheat system that won't kill dev time

Buckit's Avatar


Buckit
02.13.2012 , 10:41 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Pestwulf View Post
So why don't you implement a Cheat column like you do the MVP column? let people earn cheating points and when they reach a thresh-hold that you feel deserves investigation you can look into it. That way it's player driven, but it also weeds out the Rage portion of the accusations.

Fine idea in theory. In practice, however, this system will instantly be abused.

oblongship's Avatar


oblongship
02.13.2012 , 10:45 AM | #22
I don't know how many people have to tell you before you get it through your head...

PLAYER DRIVEN SYSTEMS LIKE THIS ARE A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!
Defend it to your last breath all you want. NOTHING even remotely similar to this will ever make it to game.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
02.13.2012 , 10:48 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Pestwulf View Post
The problem with that is the million user player base. It's just not realistic that they can hire enough people for this duty so that when you need to report it they can get there in time to observe the behavior.

You also have people who will report because the "suspect" cheating, or because they are just so pissed that they want someone to listen. A points system like this would allow them to set a threshold so that only offenders that trigger an alarm will have to be investigated.
Actually it is. We pay a lot of money a month for them to make a fair, policed online game. If they want to be in this market they need to have staff.

Stop excusing them cause you think its hard. They make plenty of money off 14.99 a month to hire AMERICAN game managers for each server to monitor the warzones.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
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cpdm's Avatar


cpdm
02.13.2012 , 10:51 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
...My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.
Look more carefully at what the OP is describing. It is not a system that automatically bans people who get X number of "cheater" votes. Getting X votes would simply flag an account for investigation by REAL people, who would be able to look over the in-game logs and even watch said person while they play to see if they are really cheating.
I've been ionized, but I'm okay now.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:56 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Spyde View Post
Nice, we dont like that guy, lets all Mark him as a cheater.

By all means, if that floats your boat. It won't matter though as it would be the trending of the data that is more important than the fact that you got pissed and decided to grief.

A system like this should only fail in the case of wide spread Griefing or wide spread Apathy. And I doubt apathy would be an issue.

Take for instance me. I played in about 30 Warzones on Sunday. Lets be generous and say I met you in 15 of them.

You encourage everyone to vote me a cheater and have three other guildies teaming with you. So out of all those matches I played, you are worth 4 votes against me and maybe..what..50% of your team you were able to encourage to report me as well? So around 34 votes for me being a cheater this Sunday.

I'm likely to play an average of 7 warzones a night until the weekend, then count me in for another 30 on Sunday.

So i've got about 100 matches under my belt for the week (rounding down). You've got to be actively campaigning against me even in matches that we aren't in together to make up for all the matches where I wasn't voted a cheater.

What's more, if you get pissed off at someone else and do this to them, that makes your case worse as you increase the background noise and push the spike threshold higher.

What's more, as you so readily pointed out, you won't be alone in this. Lots of people will be doing exactly what you are doing to bunches of other people, basically creating a baseline of acceptable votes.

The way to cheat it would be for the cheater to limit the number of matches they play so that they can fit in with the background and not spike. That alone is a little bit of a victory, but extend the data sampling period for a Month and that becomes increasingly difficult to do.

Anyway, these are just my opinions I have obviously never implemented a points based anti-cheat system for an MMO before, so I can not tell you with certainty how it would work. I just know that trending is an amazing tool for filtering out anomalies and I feel it would apply well to a pvp setting like this.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:58 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
I don't know how many people have to tell you before you get it through your head...

PLAYER DRIVEN SYSTEMS LIKE THIS ARE A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!
Defend it to your last breath all you want. NOTHING even remotely similar to this will ever make it to game.
It's a discussion hot-head. If you don't want to be constructive, stop looking at this thread.

oblongship's Avatar


oblongship
02.13.2012 , 11:01 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by cpdm View Post
Look more carefully at what the OP is describing. It is not a system that automatically bans people who get X number of "cheater" votes. Getting X votes would simply flag an account for investigation by REAL people, who would be able to look over the in-game logs and even watch said person while they play to see if they are really cheating.
Either way, nothing like this would ever make it into the game plain and simple.

superfeds's Avatar


superfeds
02.13.2012 , 11:06 AM | #28
Is there some epidemic of hacking going on that Im not seeing?

I think a lot of times people see someone lagging/teleporting around, or get owned by someone and automatically think they're "hacking" because there is no way they could of possibly killed such an amazing player without hacking.

Im sure any actual cases of this are few and far between. Why implement a system that is so easily abused for what is a minor problem? Just report the player in game and if its a problem leave the WZ.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 11:11 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by PlagaNerezza View Post
Actually it is. We pay a lot of money a month for them to make a fair, policed online game. If they want to be in this market they need to have staff.

Stop excusing them cause you think its hard. They make plenty of money off 14.99 a month to hire AMERICAN game managers for each server to monitor the warzones.
I disagree. Yes they are making a lot of money, but there is no reason not to give whoever is doing this better tools to do the job. I think it is a bad idea to have more "managers" on the payroll than developers just to make sure people don't cheat. So I don't think hiring 216 managers, one for each server, is a smart decision for a company when a little bit of software could knock that down to about 5% of the number of people needed.

I also do not think it is "hard" as much as I sincerely hope like hell they are being as thorough as possible before slapping people with the BAN stick.