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Player driven anti-cheat system that won't kill dev time

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Player driven anti-cheat system that won't kill dev time

lendaugy's Avatar


lendaugy
02.13.2012 , 09:59 AM | #11
Anything driven by players, can and will be abused... how do people not understand this?
As the always wise yoda once said, " Live Long and Prosper!"

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:18 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
You are talking about a lot of "if"'s and relying on players not being jerks.

Also like I said someone could not be liked on their server and with no cross server WZ's they could easily be voted a cheater by a bunch of trolls and get falsely banned.

Leaving server administration to the masses is just a bad idea.
Actually, you are providing the "If's". I'm simply saying that the cumulative data will reveal spikes and that those spikes can be weeded out via setting multiple thresholds.

This is not anything new, it's simply using some very basic tools to make life easier for everyone. If 20k or so people on your server don't like you in pvp enough to report you for cheating, then that would be a pretty big anomaly. I would also venture that it would be exceedingly rare and more of a "fear" tactic argument than based out of anything real.

Efuf's Avatar


Efuf
02.13.2012 , 10:18 AM | #13
that wont work, cause you will have people voting cheaters, simply because they beat them.

and it will deffinately happen like that, i can already see kids spamming ops chat to vote for a certain person, simply because theyre better than them
Peace Through Superior Firepower

Skienz's Avatar


Skienz
02.13.2012 , 10:24 AM | #14
False reports wouldn't be a problem since the people investigating them wouldn't auto ban the people. They would simply put them on the top of the investigation list and make their own decision.

They might be able to limit how many people you can report per day also which would limit the douches false reports.

But I doubt they will implement this since they have bigger fish to fry.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by lendaugy View Post
Anything driven by players, can and will be abused... how do people not understand this?
It's data mining for crying out loud. To abuse it would require something along the lines of a sustained conspiracy. If every time you played a game, you reported everyone on the opposing side and your side for cheating. and you did that every time you played then it would mean two things.

The first as far as the system goes, it would mean absolutely nothing unless you had a large number of other people doing it with you.

The second thing it would mean is that you yourself could fit an entirely different "griefer" threshold as you are obviously abusing the system.

Please note that I am using "you" in an abstract term and not implying that you would be someone who would grief.

Yes, there will be people who will always try to abuse a system. But that is not limited to ones that incorporate players. In fact, I would venture it is harder abuse this type of system than it would be to hack the game and control mvp or "cheat" votes. But in that case BW has a bigger problem than an anti-cheat system failing.

oblongship's Avatar


oblongship
02.13.2012 , 10:31 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Pestwulf View Post
Actually, you are providing the "If's". I'm simply saying that the cumulative data will reveal spikes and that those spikes can be weeded out via setting multiple thresholds.

This is not anything new, it's simply using some very basic tools to make life easier for everyone. If 20k or so people on your server don't like you in pvp enough to report you for cheating, then that would be a pretty big anomaly. I would also venture that it would be exceedingly rare and more of a "fear" tactic argument than based out of anything real.
Again, leaving server administration to the masses is never a good idea. This is just a very small example but when I played WoW (I know right *** am I doing talking about WoW) in BG's they had the report a player afk option.

Even though someone would be playing if they had mouthed off or just acted kind of like a jerk or just plain didn't get along with some people in the group. If they player started to guard a node and no one would be around people would spam the afk report trying to get them booted.

Now your case would be an extreme, make enough enemies and you get banned? or have the threshold so darn high it wouldn't even matter.

I don't even think I have come across 20k unique players in pvp since I started playing.

Also I know this sounds dumb but a lot of people are dumb. In huttball it straight says "Cheating is encouraged" by the announcer. Now to a normal person I know that doesn't mean to go download hacks...to the average stupid person that could mean a thumbs up to speed hack and to me at least that's where I see a majority of the cheaters.

My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Efuf View Post
that wont work, cause you will have people voting cheaters, simply because they beat them.

and it will deffinately happen like that, i can already see kids spamming ops chat to vote for a certain person, simply because theyre better than them
Of course that will happen. And likely happen often. However, it is predictable and constant and when the data is trended out there will STILL be spikes.

The spikes will only occur when a large number of accounts start voting. IF you span this for a week and look at the data, you might find that everyone has been accused of cheating, but that the account ICHEATYOUHAHA seems to have gotten triple the number of votes.

Also, it looks like with the data that the entire guild called DESTROYYOUSUKKA has been reporting everyone in every match they play. Not only is it easy to discount their data, but it is also easy to warn them and help make the game better for everyone.

However, forget all that and look at the current system in place. Currently, people report cheating through the reporting mechanism in-game. Opening a ticket, it will likely be a bug or harassment ticket...but these are indistinguishable from real, in-game issues.

What you are saying is currently already happening. The difference is a system (and it doesn't have to be this one) but an anti-cheating system would help bioware Weight the complaints as opposed to trying to address every real and imaginary finger pointing going on.

Spyde's Avatar


Spyde
02.13.2012 , 10:34 AM | #18
Nice, we dont like that guy, lets all Mark him as a cheater.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
02.13.2012 , 10:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
Again, leaving server administration to the masses is never a good idea. This is just a very small example but when I played WoW (I know right *** am I doing talking about WoW) in BG's they had the report a player afk option.

Even though someone would be playing if they had mouthed off or just acted kind of like a jerk or just plain didn't get along with some people in the group. If they player started to guard a node and no one would be around people would spam the afk report trying to get them booted.

Now your case would be an extreme, make enough enemies and you get banned? or have the threshold so darn high it wouldn't even matter.

I don't even think I have come across 20k unique players in pvp since I started playing.

Also I know this sounds dumb but a lot of people are dumb. In huttball it straight says "Cheating is encouraged" by the announcer. Now to a normal person I know that doesn't mean to go download hacks...to the average stupid person that could mean a thumbs up to speed hack and to me at least that's where I see a majority of the cheaters.

My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.
You are confusing an anti-cheat system with an automatic ban. This is merely a filtration system so that investigations into cheating are more properly targeted. Real people will still be required to do the work. The caseload will be significantly lighter however if you rely on multiple incident reports instead of just one angry kid opening up a harassment case or some such.

The other thing I think you are confusing, (and partly because I didn't indicate a time frame) is the duration in which the data is gathered. My suggestion would be take an entire weeks worth of complaints from Sunday to Sunday and tally the voting. This gives you a wider range of match ups and a wider range of reporting. I may even need to be extended for a couple weeks or a month. Whatever is needed to gather enough data points to reveal the spikes.

This is not like WOW in which you are using a single match to get the guy booted with afk flagging. This is more like a voting system where majority wins. If everyone is voting you cheater of the month, then it at the very least warrants an investigation.

Gomla's Avatar


Gomla
02.13.2012 , 10:41 AM | #20
Anything like that run by players is a terrible idea.

People would vote for whoever they wanted whether they cheat or not.

That Sorc killing you too much? Vote him as a cheater and get him banned.