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How bad do you want your gear advantage?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How bad do you want your gear advantage?

Xenon-se's Avatar


Xenon-se
02.13.2012 , 09:22 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiphere View Post
I'm just curious, how bad do you want your top teir pvp gear to give you a statistical advantage in PVP?
I don't

I want personel skill to give a huge advantage...

...but SWTOR doesn't really have a high individual skill cap.
Not with all the tab-targetting, auto-turning and one-button-specs.


It would be cool if a skilled player could take on 4-5 bad players.
No matter the class. Not because of equipment advantage.
Only because he was skilled and his opponents was not.


Having said that. SWTOR WZs are 100% objective based.
Bring a few friends that know how to play - and you can't really lose...

dkangl's Avatar


dkangl
02.13.2012 , 09:24 AM | #12
It is a great idea but we will NEVER see this come to light due to current Developer pvp views (this is with ALL games)..

Sad part is DAOC had it right all those many years ago when everyone was equal at 50 with gear. Of course that all changed with ToA which sprung the pvp worlds into the downward spiral we are now caught in.

Games lose out in the pvp area because of this gear advantage in pvp YET the devs seem to not care or understand and keep the current system even though the majority of the players complain about it.

Anthiel's Avatar


Anthiel
02.13.2012 , 09:24 AM | #13
pvp gear is to keep people in raid gear out of pvp and it has to be powerfull enough to do this nothing can be done about that short of banning non pvp gear from wz's and ilum and how logistically do you suggest that is done

Torleen's Avatar


Torleen
02.13.2012 , 10:12 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by dkangl View Post
It is a great idea but we will NEVER see this come to light due to current Developer pvp views (this is with ALL games)..

Sad part is DAOC had it right all those many years ago when everyone was equal at 50 with gear. Of course that all changed with ToA which sprung the pvp worlds into the downward spiral we are now caught in.

Games lose out in the pvp area because of this gear advantage in pvp YET the devs seem to not care or understand and keep the current system even though the majority of the players complain about it.
Not necessarily.

Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post


It is our intention to gradually, over multiple patches, reduce the impact of situational consumables on endgame combat resolution and shift the factors which determine the outcome of combat more towards personal skill. As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.


Regards
Georg
Want to hunt griefers/gankers?
Do you like to PVP, OR RP, OR both, or either?
Honor might just be the guild for you!

Kiphere's Avatar


Kiphere
02.13.2012 , 10:34 AM | #15
How to make rakata gear not give you a pvp advantage?

Make PVE gear PVE only. rather than creating an equal set of gear you can get from PVP make it so you can't wear PVE teir gear in WZs.

By making your PVP gear static as far as stats are concerned you eliminate scaling issues and balance issues. Everyone has access to the same level of stats, you never have to worry about people getting the increasingly higher and higher PVE stats that will eventually lead to issues like we've seen in other MMOs where you're getting one shotted or have so much health as a tank that it's impossible for some one to actually take you out.

Separate PVE and PVP as it should be, make PVE Teir gear unuseable in WZs and make the PVP gear more focused on cosmetics. This fixes multiple issues... people grinding PVP to get gear for PVE and people grinding PVE to get gear for PVP. Pick your progression, you will end up with 2 sets most likely, one for PVE and one for PVP. As it should be.

This sort of system not only fixes existing frustrations but eliminates the issues that will come up in the future as PVE equipment progresses to keep up with more and more challenging PVE content while in PVP we're still just 'players' it keeps the gap down to a minimum between players where skill is still the primary factor, again, as it should be.

Player vs Player, not Player vs /played.
Kiphere
Giradda The Hutt

Skitlz's Avatar


Skitlz
02.13.2012 , 10:38 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiphere View Post
I'm just curious, how bad do you want your top teir pvp gear to give you a statistical advantage in PVP?

Personally Player vs Player to me is a game of skill, I want to go against another player in equal gear and kill him. BM vs BM is a great fight. Right now if you're in full BM you're toasting even good players that just hit 50 and don't have the full set yet. Gear is making a 'huge' difference in PVP.

I like rewards, don't get me wrong but I think making gear have such an impact on PVP is a mistake. PVE it makes sense, better gear, more effective, easier content consumption. In PVP it should be more about the players and less about the gear in my personal opinion.

For me I'd like it if the top teir gear was more of a cosmetic difference.

What I'd like to see in PVP rewards personally, just to make the fields more even but still reward those who play hard, win, and earn their ranks.

1. At lvl 50 make three sets of gear. First teir requires ranks 1-29 is purple and has a set of graphics, Second teir requires ranks 31-59 is purple and has a completely different set of graphics, more impressive details, noticably different. Rank 60+ has it's "final" set of gear. This should be a deep purple/dark blue set that has a truly epic looking graphic. This should be a set of gear that when you put it on people know you're a bad MFer.

2. All teirs of gear come with 0 mods/enhancements/armorings, etc. Teir 1-2 have standard slots in them, teir 3 has an augment slot as an added bonus.

3. There is a set of PVP mods/enhancements/augments/armorings/barrels, etc that you purchase with commendations. There is only one level of these item modifications.

4. Add more PVP perks that don't boost character effectiveness. Other mounts, cosmetic pets, social items, etc. That can be purchased with commendations and require rank levels.

With this set up the only advantage top teir PVPers would have statistically is the augment slots which would be minor enough that it's not going to make a 'huge' difference in PVP. It keeps the game about player skill and less about /played time. it still puts a 'grind' and a purpose to PVP as most of us will want that top teir gear just for the bragging rights.

I like getting rewards, but I pvp because I like to fight other players, I like the strategy and unpredictability of it compared to PVE encounters. Mind you, I don't mind at all that in BM gear I can roll over most anyone without it without even really trying that hard but it does take some of the fun out of it. I'd like it to be about the player and not the gear is all I'm sayin.
A fresh 50 should go into it having 6 champion bags waiting on the, and do 2 dailys and get 2 more. 4 days into it i have 5 pieces of centurion, and getting rdy to have champion weapon.

No real excuse im over 300 expertise only a week into it.

Also you dont bring a knife to a gun fight. You "gear" so to speak is just as important in game as it is in RL, for those of you who argue that route. DOnt like it play a game without gear. u knew this game had gear before you started and knew it was going to have pvp gear. Also Bm gear is good yes but not unbeatable if your halfway decent with a champ weapon and a few champ/cent pieces its no problem to fight a BM and win.

diogolp's Avatar


diogolp
02.13.2012 , 10:48 AM | #17
1- Saying that gear shouldn't count, it should be about "skill" in a game with so many different classes is nonsense. Even equally geared, class will still matter more than skill.
2- I would bet that every person who wants pvp gear capped at "x tier" is precisely at that "x tier."


If people wanted to make this about skill, classes would not exist (or you would be able to respec to any of them) as well.

Kiphere's Avatar


Kiphere
02.13.2012 , 11:00 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by diogolp View Post
1- Saying that gear shouldn't count, it should be about "skill" in a game with so many different classes is nonsense. Even equally geared, class will still matter more than skill.
2- I would bet that every person who wants pvp gear capped at "x tier" is precisely at that "x tier."


If people wanted to make this about skill, classes would not exist (or you would be able to respec to any of them) as well.
1. Of course classes matter, heres the catch. I'm not talking about 1v1. I'm talking about team battles and both teams have access to the same classes (mirrors yes, but the same none the less) So yeah, it's not about balance between the teams as far as classes, it's about the gap gear creates and how it invalidates a lot of skill.

2. You'd be pretty wrong on that one. In fact I could turn it around and say that anyone who argues 'against' having gear no longer be a factor would be a baddie that grinded up to BM and doesn't want to go back to being a baddie without his gear crutch.



The current situation in PVP is that if you've put in a lot of time, regardless of skill you end up with a pretty significant advantage. Skill should be the primary factor. My suggestion supports that. If you're good, you shouldn't be fighting it as it won't effect you will it?
Kiphere
Giradda The Hutt

diogolp's Avatar


diogolp
02.13.2012 , 11:05 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiphere View Post
1. Of course classes matter, heres the catch. I'm not talking about 1v1. I'm talking about team battles and both teams have access to the same classes (mirrors yes, but the same none the less) So yeah, it's not about balance between the teams as far as classes, it's about the gap gear creates and how it invalidates a lot of skill.

But even then it is still about class composition more than skill. Healer/tank combos will still be much better for huttball than a team full of snipers and dps operatives.

Quote:
2. You'd be pretty wrong on that one. In fact I could turn it around and say that anyone who argues 'against' having gear no longer be a factor would be a baddie that grinded up to BM and doesn't want to go back to being a baddie without his gear crutch.



The current situation in PVP is that if you've put in a lot of time, regardless of skill you end up with a pretty significant advantage. Skill should be the primary factor. My suggestion supports that. If you're good, you shouldn't be fighting it as it won't effect you will it?
But I didn't argue against removing gear entirely. I am talking about the people who are still saying, in this thread, "gear should matter, but only until tier X."

In fact, I am not even trying to defend current gear imbalances. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the people who want to diminish gear in a way that still benefits them.

pinkfreudHC's Avatar


pinkfreudHC
02.13.2012 , 11:15 AM | #20
Remember in Oblivion in the Arena quests where they were like "Here is your Arena gear, you wear this while you're in there."

PVP gear should be like that in Warzones, and the current PVP gear should only increase your Open World power.