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Melee Tanking in this game is Horrible


Sturyko's Avatar


Sturyko
02.12.2012 , 08:49 AM | #1
Why does every single mob need to have a Stun or knockback? WHY?! What possible logic can there be to give nearly every single mob in this game a means of stopping you from getting aggro?

Bosses I can totally understand. But trash?! ALL THE TRASH?! Anything with a silver star or stronger has some means of messing with me before i even jump in. I get knocked back AS I'M JUMPING IN.

I did Kaon for the 1st time the other day. I'm fairly well geared and haven't had any trouble tanking so far. I hate it - but i can do it. However the packs of mobs in Kaon were insufferable. So I marked the Mercs and we made them top priority, but once i ran in i'd either be grappled or the Shriekers would knock me back for miles. They do it as soon as you engage as well so I need to wait before AoE taunting or Smashing because if I don't - I use it where I land - not on the mobs. So the first 10 seconds of EVERY SINGLE FIGHT is basically me running around picking up mobs that are all running around like kids in a play park, and even if we group up to let me do it easier - a shrieker scatters us. NOT ONLY THAT!! But the elites in the groups have an aggro reset so it doesn't even matter if I have threat because they just randomly wander around.

So we are grappled, knocked back, or have no aggro hold on them in anyway. And thats EVERY SINGLE PACK.

So then I get to the Behemoth and begin kiting him. Does he follow? No. He knocks me back making it stupidly hard to keep any aggro on him and even when I hit him with everything i have and he jumps to someone else and begins hitting them.

So should I save my taunt for when he knocks me back or when he jumps to someone else? My jump in certainly doesn't do any where near enough damage to keep aggro off a Full Columi geared ranged DPS.

I agree that things should be challanging but this is one of the most frustrating games I've ever played when it comes to tanking. It's just horrible. Having every damn mob knocking you back or stunning you is not fun. I pay monthly to have fun. This isn't anywhere NEAR fun. So should I just re-roll completely?! It's not that good a game that I want to level a BH tank just to get round your poor design.

Honestly..... why?

DeathDiciple's Avatar


DeathDiciple
02.12.2012 , 09:00 AM | #2
Erm... while in general it does annoy me how everything throws me all over the place, you're exaggerating.

Mercs/shriekers - use cc on shriekers, cc mercs or leave 1 at a time and interrupt him whenever its off timer etc. Can't just rush in, the thrash in there actually requires some tactics, which is a good thing imo.

Behemoth - if you're too close to him he kicks you and switches targets, if you're too far from him he jumps to you. Find an 'ideal' distance for kiting, taunt him after he switches aggro if he throws you away (errors happen), rinse repeat.

BH tanks do seem to have advantage but its hardly the end of the world from what i saw.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
02.12.2012 , 09:50 AM | #3
I actually agree. I dont mind being the underdog jugg tank. Its hectic but I can get the job done. Whats terrible is that upon leaping in you are knockback, stunned, thrown to the ground etc. Its not just kaon but that is an extreme example. There are many zones where many of the mobs all do the same knockback, stun, thrown to ground... and it is many times in a row. Stun ... cc break... knockback... stun...healer cc breaks... stun. Happens all the time and makes initial aggro a complete pain in the ***.

Denizon's Avatar


Denizon
02.12.2012 , 09:58 AM | #4
I haven't done Kaon since it came in I'm told the merc's stun isn't permanent until interupted anymore, shriekers are either killed first or cc'd, keep your back to something or at the very least facing the way you came. People seem to forget this isn't WoW where you just just run in to a pack of mobs and faceroll everything. As far as the behemoth goes I just drag him up to the fountain and put my back to it (BH Shield Tech) I taunt him back to me when he switches targets took a long *** time to kill him but at least I wasn't be tossed all over the place.

Again I haven't run it since it was brought in so not sure if its been changed much but that was all I did when I first ran it.

Oh and that age old tactic of let the tank hit it a couple of times first before the dps goes balls to the wall is still a goodie.

DeathDiciple's Avatar


DeathDiciple
02.12.2012 , 10:04 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Denizon View Post
I haven't done Kaon since it came in I'm told the merc's stun isn't permanent until interupted anymore, shriekers are either killed first or cc'd, keep your back to something or at the very least facing the way you came. People seem to forget this isn't WoW where you just just run in to a pack of mobs and faceroll everything. As far as the behemoth goes I just drag him up to the fountain and put my back to it (BH Shield Tech) I taunt him back to me when he switches targets took a long *** time to kill him but at least I wasn't be tossed all over the place.

Again I haven't run it since it was brought in so not sure if its been changed much but that was all I did when I first ran it.

Oh and that age old tactic of let the tank hit it a couple of times first before the dps goes balls to the wall is still a goodie.
Merc stun isnt permanent but it last waaaay too long if not interrupted, i dont know if its like a minute or 2 or such.

KefkaXXX's Avatar


KefkaXXX
02.12.2012 , 10:09 AM | #6
Its not that tanking isnt horrible right now its just broken atm. U can reference wow tanking to in cata they made tanking such a joke u can faceroll a aoe move and ud have aggro, talking about having no fun buddy theirs nothing fun about that. Atleast the tanking in this game takes some mad coordination or good cc's which ur suppose to do. U just gotta stop whining and let them fix it, the more u whine the more itll end up were we just run in spank the things then go for a coffee break like wow.......

DarthChagras's Avatar


DarthChagras
02.12.2012 , 10:10 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Sturyko View Post
Why does every single mob need to have a Stun or knockback? WHY?! What possible logic can there be to give nearly every single mob in this game a means of stopping you from getting aggro?

Bosses I can totally understand. But trash?! ALL THE TRASH?! Anything with a silver star or stronger has some means of messing with me before i even jump in. I get knocked back AS I'M JUMPING IN.

I did Kaon for the 1st time the other day. I'm fairly well geared and haven't had any trouble tanking so far. I hate it - but i can do it. However the packs of mobs in Kaon were insufferable. So I marked the Mercs and we made them top priority, but once i ran in i'd either be grappled or the Shriekers would knock me back for miles. They do it as soon as you engage as well so I need to wait before AoE taunting or Smashing because if I don't - I use it where I land - not on the mobs. So the first 10 seconds of EVERY SINGLE FIGHT is basically me running around picking up mobs that are all running around like kids in a play park, and even if we group up to let me do it easier - a shrieker scatters us. NOT ONLY THAT!! But the elites in the groups have an aggro reset so it doesn't even matter if I have threat because they just randomly wander around.

So we are grappled, knocked back, or have no aggro hold on them in anyway. And thats EVERY SINGLE PACK.

So then I get to the Behemoth and begin kiting him. Does he follow? No. He knocks me back making it stupidly hard to keep any aggro on him and even when I hit him with everything i have and he jumps to someone else and begins hitting them.

So should I save my taunt for when he knocks me back or when he jumps to someone else? My jump in certainly doesn't do any where near enough damage to keep aggro off a Full Columi geared ranged DPS.

I agree that things should be challanging but this is one of the most frustrating games I've ever played when it comes to tanking. It's just horrible. Having every damn mob knocking you back or stunning you is not fun. I pay monthly to have fun. This isn't anywhere NEAR fun. So should I just re-roll completely?! It's not that good a game that I want to level a BH tank just to get round your poor design.

Honestly..... why?
TL;DR but
I don't get what you're talking about at all...I play a Jugg MT, with a Sin OT and we do gloriously fine. I get stunned maybe every other trash mob, but it's no big deal really it's just trash. If you die to trash either you suck or your healer sucks.

As for Kaon, CC and Stun before jumping in.
Bandon - Jugg Tank - Veela -
Ula - Sniper - Veela -
Dao - Merc - Veela -
Death's Fist - Veela

Poganin's Avatar


Poganin
02.12.2012 , 10:11 AM | #8
This issue of crippled melee tanks is further exacerbated when you run the same flashpoint with a vanguard tank. Seriously, vanguards make certain boss fights absolutely trivial. The second boss of Maelstrom Prison is a good example here. He has a move where he applies a DoT on anyone in melee, this dot hits pretty hard so it has to be cleansed. Now, with a team of a melee tank and a melee dps this actually means that I have to both heal the tank from high damage and also cleanse and heal anyone else that might get the hard-hitting DoT. But a vanguard can just stand 5 metres away from the boss and pew pew without fear of getting the DoT.

Another example? Krel Thak in Battle of Ilum, a major pain for melee tanks because if you're not careful, you will pwn yourself against his shield and probe combo. Vanguards? Again, stand at range and pew pew.

I play a healer, with competent guildies. But while our vanguard tank makes all fights a major faceroll, when I run with our guardian tank I sometimes want to tear my hair out.
Bear Infinitive - the patron saint of translators.

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
02.12.2012 , 12:54 PM | #9
This entire game is melee unfriendly, regardless of whether you're tank or DPS. It's a bad game design, straight up. The Devs clearly have a woody for ranged classes. Every boss has either PBAOE knock back, stun, dmg, or both. The first mini-boss in Esseles is the same way. He has a point blank range knockdown that only works on melee tanks. When the adds spawn you're too busy lying on the floor to do anything about them. A Vanguard can simply stand out of range since the boss himself is a ranged and blast away. The Devs were incredibly short sighted and stupid by making virtually every encounter the exact same. Melee unfriendly, ranged easy, enrage at 2 min/25% health, tank and spank. There isn't a fight in this game that's original.
There's no QQing in baseball.

Sturyko's Avatar


Sturyko
02.12.2012 , 12:57 PM | #10
Yeah I totally agree with what everyone is saying. I don't want to face roll, and the Kaon was just an example. My issue is that it's in every FP and in all honesty, most times it doesn't need to be. Being knocked back by trash isn't really a great way of creating challange. Its just annoying. On bosses it's fair enough. But Black Talon trash?

I'm defo thinking that Ranged tank is the way to go. Its a shame because I like how Melee works. Being pinballed around is just really frustrating