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Arena, implement competitive PVP.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Arena, implement competitive PVP.

Nabolassar's Avatar


Nabolassar
03.23.2012 , 08:54 AM | #171
Standard group size on swtor is 4 party members...2v2 is impossible to balance but with 8 advanced classes a party of 4 could have half of them and that would really offset the balance aspect. All advanced classes would be viable in a 4v4 setting.

The other complaint seems to be gear, and i agree arena shouldnt be the only source for the best gear, but if it were identical to warzone gear then whats the harm? i just want it as an option to break the monotony of objective pvp and let me get to a more stripped down version of brutal pvp.

4v4 arenas to get warzone gear, cosmetic stuff for high ratings and you would satisfy most players.
gf agro 24/7

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
04.06.2012 , 01:36 PM | #172
I normally hate arena since it causes awful nerfs to happen and is nothing more than FotM- however, since BW already is making stupid nerfs and FotM classes- maybe arena will at least shut up some of the morons who think certain classes are the best just cuz people play them.

Celebrus's Avatar


Celebrus
04.06.2012 , 01:50 PM | #173
Thankfully BW doesn't agree with the OP or most of the pro-arena crowd (which seems to be getting smaller and less vocal these days).

We will be getting competitive PvP, hopefully after this joke of a pre-season is over and we have cross server PvP rated will be more appealing to the masses, as it is with the pre-season matchmaking system it's a joke, but the testing needs to be done and hopefully the correct improvements will be made.

That said, I'm glad they chose to go with a larger scale to competitive PvP. Arena, in ALL of it's forms, is too exclusive and involves little to no strategy, other than what you've memorized off of a better player's blog when it comes to changing your plans to fit the comp you're facing.

Hopefully ranked warzones (rated BGs are where blizzard truly wanted to go with competitive pvp, but the premature implemention of arena hampered that) will end up showing us that a larger scale PvP environment can be just as tactical and interesting (if not more so) than smaller scale arena.

But the fact remains that arena, in the form that you are requesting, is not coming, not with 1.2, and not likely in the short term following that either.

Noctournys's Avatar


Noctournys
04.06.2012 , 01:51 PM | #174
Deathmatch is not the only form of competetive PvP. In fact, if you look at what actually pays money in the eSports scene - competetive PvP is almost never deathmatch. Only in fighting games, really.

Deathmatch is awful, and forces them to try to balance around FOTM comps and microscopically sized teams. They have no desire to do that (and good for them). I dont blame them.
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Also, 'cause im tired of talking about it:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...222960&page=11

Celebrus's Avatar


Celebrus
04.06.2012 , 01:53 PM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by Noctournys View Post
Deathmatch is not the only form of competetive PvP. In fact, if you look at what actually pays money in the eSports scene - competetive PvP is almost never deathmatch. Only in fighting games, really.

Deathmatch is awful, and forces them to try to balance around FOTM comps and microscopically sized teams. They have no desire to do that (and good for them). I dont blame them.
This.

There is a reason that competitive teams in CoD play S&D and not deathmatch.

Objectives add flair and strategy to a match without taking away from the core concepts of PvP: fight other players.

vulup's Avatar


vulup
04.06.2012 , 02:05 PM | #176
I dont want arena in its traditional "WoW"-specific format

because of

(1) balance issuse - Swotor would, for arenas to be balanced, be balanced around arenas first and everything else second

(2) people may not ask for rewards now but they will (just look at rated WZ - many people asked for a ranked ladder system w/o rewards before they were announced; those people are now asking for more than just cosmetic rewards specific to their ranking), forcing pvpers who dislike this particular format to PvP in arenas to stay on top of the gear-curve.

(3) Those who dont arena will, like in wow, be looked down upon.

Those are, really, my only concerns. I have no issue with an arena system but i also doubt one can exist without those issues ruining the game.

Pregnancy's Avatar


Pregnancy
04.06.2012 , 02:18 PM | #177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyiper
I just wanted to start this thread to get the idea out there.
That This game needs an Arena system.
Three friends and I have found ourselves re-activating our wow accounts. Just so we can arena. This is a pain as I am now dividing my focus back away from SWTOR.
To wow just because of the arena system.

I absolutely agree with that, this game "Needs" a competitive PvP system. WZs or Rated WZs wont be competitive enough for any Hardcore PvPer. By now I'm sure the results and statistics have shown how popular the PvP is compared to PvE in this game, and the number of PvPers in this game is going very very strong. not just in this game but most MMOs out there.
Arena bring another level to this game and it teaches people how to have better and faster reaction time, coordination, teamwork, also learn how to CC and interrupt properly. Unlike most WZs were you see 4 people trying to kill one person which is being healed by a Merc 2 feet away, yet none of the simple jacks think twice, that maybe, MAYBE it be a good idea if they throw a CC on that healer or go and interrupt her heals instead of continuing a failed attempt to Zerg another player down while being healed.

I don't like to compare games here but I must say that I've played WoW for 5 years, and hands down I would have quit that game after 2 years if it weren't for the very fun Arena system that they had implemented in that game, which literally attracted Millions of PvPers to that game and kept them as long-term subscribers.

Grouping with 8 players random or pro players on your server is no more than a Zerg fest, and not much of a real competition. Though I do respect the idea of this company taking Ideas from other successful games and implementing it into their game, yes rated WZs with 8 players an exact duplicate of ( Rated BGs) what wow introduced around the WOTLK expansion nearly 2 years ago, but this won't stick for too long for most of those PvPers out there looking for a challenge. How many Instanced Rated WZs will people do before they become bored? with no good World PvP and reward and no Arenas, I don't see most serious PvPers sticking around.

There is no real world PvP in this game, because of fears of losing subscribers I mean Carebears who join ("PVP") servers instead of PVE, get camped a few times, go on the forums and cry or decide to quit. This is the first game that I have seen with a very evasive and bad World PvP design. It needs improvement and less instance zones and more faction interactions by putting quests of both factions or gathering materials in the same zones, and rewarding World PvP decently with accommodations.

Illum would have made it as a great PvP zone A) Had there been decent rewards for World PvP and no not talking about rewarding big groups and Zerging others or having 2 Ops going at it for easy rewards, rather very small groups or 1 on 1s should be rewarded much better than a group, because it requires more skill. B) Add Material gathering Nods and Quests into the PvP area to draw conflicts and reason to PvP rather than separate zones like we have seen from lvl 15-49 and instance a lot of the content. ( again this is a PvP server talk not PvE), so people on PvE won't ever have to worry about this conflicts. C) Create better Objectives, rather than toss 5 giant robots in the center of Illum which even with futuristic technology still can't shoot each other at point blank. Maybe have them do random Aoes around the zone that Does damage, so it gives it a live and real PvP environment feel. D) A wasteland covered in snow isn't the most fun and creative place to go and PvP in.

I Rarely waste my time making points to others because most so called average minds or inexperienced people don't want to sit down and figure out by themselves that 2+2 is 4 not 3-5 or 14 nor are they willing to ask for help or go out there and take someone else's ideas or suggestions, because psychologically we all like to think we're in full control and understand. I've had and seen many good PvPers on my server quit, both from Republic and Imperial, I didn't like to see that from the opposing faction because, they put out a very good competition and skill, nor did I like to see skilled people from my faction side leave either.

To further clear things this game needs way more than a simple Rated WZs to keep its PvP fans. A) A proper World/Planet PvP design and "system" and B) Arenas, these are two big topics which should not be overlooked and worked on immediately to keep the majority of the real PvP fans from migrating away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pregnancy

My PvP Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MwubC4rhSg

TheNotorius's Avatar


TheNotorius
04.06.2012 , 02:19 PM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by vulup View Post
I dont want arena in its traditional "WoW"-specific format

because of

(1) balance issuse - Swotor would, for arenas to be balanced, be balanced around arenas first and everything else second

(2) people may not ask for rewards now but they will (just look at rated WZ - many people asked for a ranked ladder system w/o rewards before they were announced; those people are now asking for more than just cosmetic rewards specific to their ranking), forcing pvpers who dislike this particular format to PvP in arenas to stay on top of the gear-curve.

(3) Those who dont arena will, like in wow, be looked down upon.

Those are, really, my only concerns. I have no issue with an arena system but i also doubt one can exist without those issues ruining the game.
(1) The balance in this game is already random or based on QQ, so I wouldn't see a downside in it. Also, I doubt a balance only for Arena will ever happen, if it gives the same rewards as WZ.

(2) Well, the only complaint I saw, was to add an Augment slot in the Rated Gear, which is a valid complaint since it's a gear for the look, and without your Augment slot you have to use a crafted set.

(3) Maybe...but it will happen the same with Rated warzones soon.
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Noctournys's Avatar


Noctournys
04.06.2012 , 06:47 PM | #179
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNotorius View Post
(1) The balance in this game is already random or based on QQ, so I wouldn't see a downside in it. Also, I doubt a balance only for Arena will ever happen, if it gives the same rewards as WZ.

(2) Well, the only complaint I saw, was to add an Augment slot in the Rated Gear, which is a valid complaint since it's a gear for the look, and without your Augment slot you have to use a crafted set.

(3) Maybe...but it will happen the same with Rated warzones soon.
you can soloqueue rated WZs, though, and get the same gear, so... yeah.

This game is a lot more balanced than most people give it credit for. There are some issues - guard + heals needs a look for a rebalance (not syaing gutted.. but if it were reduced to 35%, would the world end? no.) or a counter (like an attack that disrupts guard for X seconds.

Marauders/Sentinels need to be evened out. As it is now, they are absurdly bad in all but the best gear, but in the best gear, they can do 10k in two globals to a medium or light armor target. The class isnt totally overboard.. but when they can burn someone down in 3 globals.. they need to be tuned.
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Also, 'cause im tired of talking about it:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...222960&page=11

Evertol's Avatar


Evertol
04.07.2012 , 09:16 AM | #180
You all focus too much on wows arena, the Arena type system for guilds in guild wars was fine. I quite liked WoW's arena too tbh and if i am honest unless theres more fun PvP elements added i personally will be leaving. Theres no decent world PvP battlezones are just mindless and the worlds are not populated enough for my liking even on heavy servers, really enjoyed the game at launch but the appeal has waned quickly!