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Arena, implement competitive PVP.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Arena, implement competitive PVP.

Gonaho's Avatar


Gonaho
02.20.2012 , 03:11 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Scotland View Post
what if you never played wow?
Obviously i was not talking about such players?.. Nor was i implying that everyone would be one.
No, it was merely an observation of sorts. This isn't the first thread about Arenas, and it sure won't be the last. My point somewhat being that people honking the arena horn seem to genuinely think that it's the best thing ever, is absolutely needed for any sort of "real" PvP to work and is the ultimate measure of anything and everything.

Which, as said, is both amusing and terrifying.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
02.20.2012 , 03:12 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by TetraCleric View Post
Needs to be 4v4 with a better mmr algorithm.
this.

Cragen's Avatar


Cragen
02.20.2012 , 03:13 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonaho View Post
It's sort of amusing.. and terrifying watching the WoW-babby generation at work. People who's first ever MMO was WoW and have gobbled up whatever Blizzard shat on the plate. And thus they can only think within of the confines of what WoW had in it.
Happened with WAR a few years back. During the beta everyone was doing the ORvR castle sieging. Then launch happened, WoW-babbies flocked in and the only thing that was played were Battlegrounds. Because that's the only thing those players had experienced and for them it had to be the only form of PvP to exist. Open world PvP? What is that word?..

Anyway, seeing the PvP forums reminds me of this phenomenon once again. The PvP needs some tweaking, so naturally what comes in mind for the WoW-babby? Arenas of course! They would solve everything. They were the sole form of high-end PvP in WoW, so it must be the only way, the correct way, the true way! How could it not be? Tom Chilton said it was.

So in any case, Rated Warzones are coming which should substitute nicely for those competitive needs. And when looking for the proverbial enema that the PvP in SWToR needs, the rancid bottle of piss that is the arena system is the last thing we should be using.
How about some of us just want OPTIONS. You know different ways of playing. I'd love for proper world PvP and conquest based PvP, but seeing as Bioware can't code to save their life we're stuck with a broken engine so that is out of the question.

So given the state of the game a small scale deathmatch pvp is feasible without several years of work on the engine.

I and from what I've read on this forum for people who want arenas don't want it to be the end all be all way to gear. Just another path with maybe some different cosmetics/titles compared to rated warzones.

Here's a good example of what it would be like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEO4_...1&feature=plcp

What I find funny is when that video was posted on this forum people loved it. Yet when you mention the word arena people flip out.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
02.20.2012 , 03:19 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Gonaho View Post
Obviously i was not talking about such players?.. Nor was i implying that everyone would be one.
No, it was merely an observation of sorts. This isn't the first thread about Arenas, and it sure won't be the last. My point somewhat being that people honking the arena horn seem to genuinely think that it's the best thing ever, is absolutely needed for any sort of "real" PvP to work and is the ultimate measure of anything and everything.

Which, as said, is both amusing and terrifying.
i wouldnt say it is needed any more than any other type of pvp, but variety is good.

SirCruCial's Avatar


SirCruCial
02.20.2012 , 03:28 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
Arena implementation in WoW was a mistake. Doing the same here would also be a mistake.

It was a mistake because it changed the way class abilities were designed and balanced and the result was a slow decline to homogenization that is now the biggest complaint about WoW classes.

Once you open up the can of worms that is Arena style play, you can't go back. It is in the best interest of any new MMO to stay as far away from Arena play as possible.

If Arena play gets introduced to SWTOR, the forums will be ablaze with posts about how "X" class is OP or "Y" class is too weak. You'll see endless whining about CC and stuns and how various mechanics shouldn't be allowed in PvP because they unbalance the fights.

You'll see post after post about how PvP needs to be balanced around 1v1 combat and after enough time you'll start to see the forums flooded with PvE players complaining that the changes made in the interest of Arena PvP are having too great of an effect on End Game PvE.

Arena isn't needed. Warzones and open PvP areas coupled with World PvP objectives where the teamwork is more important than team composition are what PvP is all about.

If you want to see if you are better than someone else, duel them.

Forums are already ablaze which class is to weak or which class is OP. So your point there was worthless.

World PvP or better yet any type of PvP is pointless unless there is some type of reward. Which why do you think people go to Ilum do their daily and split. They dont care about world pvp. They want purples. As Far as balance goes, it will never happen in any game that has PvE and PvP in it. They do something to PvP, PVE'rs will grip how it now affects them and vice versa. They need to seperate PvP from PvE. PVP servers are pure PVP servers. Non of this PvE crap. And same for PvE. Update the Pure PvP servers and PvE Servers with seperate updates when it affects classes. Not saying there cant be PvE to do on a PvP server, but you are fully aware that PvE will wont be focused on. So if you want to do both, then make an alt on a PvE server and vice versa.

So in all reality, Arenas wont do anything else to this game then there already is. People will QQ the same. I mean people are QQ about Arena's being put in place. *** you people want? More Warzones? You will get tired of that after 2 months and start crying about wanting more. Its a never ending cycle. My advice is quit playing MMO's cause you will never be happy. And if you say you would, then why are you not in a game you previously played that was so awesome. Its because you always want more more more. Wish these games would just take down forums all together. Must be a headache to listen to people whine 24/7.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
02.20.2012 , 03:30 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by SirCruCial View Post
World PvP or better yet any type of PvP is pointless unless there is some type of reward.
I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.

Cragen's Avatar


Cragen
02.20.2012 , 03:36 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Scotland View Post
I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.
The problem is world pvp do not work on a base level in this game.

The engine is totally broken and they've built the game around trying to do what they can keep it working.

I mean why do you think that Republic and Imperials are pretty much separated in every zone, and zones can only being able to handle 48 players. Given that this is Star Wars you'd expect war, but instead you have everyone hidden away at their respective fleet.

Ilum which suppose to be this great pvp area is a total lagfest the moment you have more then 30 people fighting at once.

I absolutely love world PvP, but it was dead on arrival in this game and the amount of work required to get half decent world pvp is never going to happen.

SirCruCial's Avatar


SirCruCial
02.20.2012 , 03:38 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Scotland View Post
I'd have to disagree, some of us enjoy pvpin just for the fun of it.

The more competitive the better, im sure that is what gaming is.
Some do as well as I. But some dont count when the majority dont care. I dont know about your server but I know for sure in the two servers I am in that as soon as their daily is done, they leave the ops group. Or if they are not going to win the warzone because they are losing, they leave the warzone. They get on, get their daily done, leave. Then call themselves good because they have the same gear everybody else has for doing the exact same thing. I am by far not the best at PvP, but I learn, ask questions in forums and try to improve. But I have never left a warzone, unless the game decided to kick me out to desktop (many occasions).

So no matter what game it is, Its all about gear. Not because they enjoy it. PvE they do the same. They get the rakata gear and they are done raiding. Problem here with ToR is they admitted they didnt think this game was going to have that many hardcore PvP'ers. And they wish they would have focused more on it. So now we gotta rely on the patches to come.

Scotland's Avatar


Scotland
02.20.2012 , 03:42 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Cragen View Post
The problem is world pvp do not work on a base level in this game.

The engine is totally broken and they've built the game around trying to do what they can keep it working.

I mean why do you think that Republic and Imperials are pretty much separated in every zone, and zones can only being able to handle 48 players. Given that this is Star Wars you'd expect war, but instead you have everyone hidden away at their respective fleet.

Ilum which suppose to be this great pvp area is a total lagfest the moment you have more then 30 people fighting at once.

I absolutely love world PvP, but it was dead on arrival in this game and the amount of work required to get half decent world pvp is never going to happen.
im not too worried about it seeing as the game is so young, it is suffice for the now, my guild and I dont seem to have the same problem you do.

but i wouldnt call you a liar.

Gonaho's Avatar


Gonaho
02.20.2012 , 11:26 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Cragen View Post
Here's a good example of what it would be like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEO4_...1&feature=plcp

What I find funny is when that video was posted on this forum people loved it. Yet when you mention the word arena people flip out.
You have to understand, many people still have that bitter taste of ***** in their mouths from the WoW arena system where it was the only viable means of PvP gear progression. And thus the word "Arena" comes with some resentment. Small scale group-PvP just for it's own sake, or for maybe some small cosmetic rewards, would be alright. But the sad truth is that people would not be content with just that. And i'd much rather the Devs focus on something else to bring in that variety. Why copy an old, not that good of a system? And besides, an 8v8 premade rated Huttball is pretty darn close to an arena. How about the Devs bring new similar maps in for the rated warzones than succumb to the Arena system.