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Han Solo did NOT shoot first


Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
02.11.2012 , 09:50 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by tausra View Post
The original negatives were destroyed when he decided to alter them for the big re-release in the 90's. He purposely destroyed the negatives so that the original films could never be re-released, leaving only his edited versions as the ones available to be bought.
pristine copies of the original Trilogy still sit in the National Registry at the Library of Congress in DC so no.. also the whole "Lucas destroyed the original prints" crap was never anything more than a misinformed rumor posted..

there are multiple copies of the originals still around... Lucas himself has a special Technicolor print of the original film in his personal collection... There are relatively good quality 35mm print masters, such as interpositves and fine-grain prints, as well as Technicolor prints. There is also a perfect duplicate of the negative in separation masters. Finally, the original negatives were not destroyed. What is meant when it is said that "they don't exist" or permanently altered is that the assembled edit of the film which uses the original pieces was re-ordered from the original edit to the Special Edition edit, so in this sense the original does not "exist." It would be very easy to simply put the original pieces physically back in, but in a theoretical modern restoration they would just be scanned digitally to avoid re-cutting the negative.

if he ever wanted to re-release the originals there are multiple sources he could do it from... he just chooses not to
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

Dyvid's Avatar


Dyvid
02.11.2012 , 10:06 AM | #42
First of all how is this even a debate. GL wrote the scene so I think he knows who shot first. If you frame by frame, Han ducks his head to the right dodging the shot and then shoots Greedo.

TheBentOne's Avatar


TheBentOne
02.11.2012 , 10:12 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Vecke View Post
I said this in the other post about this, but here are my thoughts...

My problem isn't because of the cold-blooded thing. I actually disagree with the assertion that it changed the character in regards to his alignment. Han shooting first wasn't a cold-blooded act. Greedo was sitting at the table, with a gun pointed at him, literally telling him he was about to kill him. Han shooting first didn't establish him as cold-blooded. No matter who shot first, it was still Han defending himself.

What the original did establish, however, was that Han was a bad***. In the original, we were watching an old fashioned cowboy shootout.

And Han won that shoot-out.

In the new one, Han actually lost the shootout and only walked out of that cantina alive because Greedo can't shoot someone sitting 2 feet away.

Those few seconds hurt the scene for me because it was 1. incredibly goofy looking, 2. had a character that was such a bad shot, Stormtroopers insult each other by saying, "You're such a Greedo," and 3. Han LOST the shootout; he just killed Greedo because Greedo can't shoot.
This. How is it possible for a professinal bounty hunter to miss somone from two feet away. It makes no sense. Instead of a quasi belevable scene where Han shoots someone with a gun to his face we are expected to beleve that Han (a hardened criminal in his own right) just WAITED for Greedo to shoot him. Even more unbelevable is that we are also expected to beleve that said PROFESSIONAL BOUNTY HUNTER MISSES FROM TWO FEET AWAY!!! you could replace Greedo with a five year old, or a monkey and Han wouldve had a smoking crater where his chest used to be. and that is why the change was a poor disision.
I bow to no one and give service only for cause.
- From the Journeyman Protectors oath.

Ironcleaver's Avatar


Ironcleaver
02.11.2012 , 11:41 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by tausra View Post
The original negatives were destroyed when he decided to alter them for the big re-release in the 90's. He purposely destroyed the negatives so that the original films could never be re-released, leaving only his edited versions as the ones available to be bought.
In the editions I bought a few years ago, in the set includes the original theader releases of each of the original three films, no editing done to them at all. Those are the ones I watch, flaws and all. I've only ever bought the VHS box set of the three films in the early 90s and now this set in dvd.

The original flim was distroyed though though chopping it up and selling the Cells. The original negitive has to be in someones vault someplace though. They said the same thing when the NGE hit SWG back in the day, sorry we can't go back even if we want too, we deleted all the backups of the previous version.

yeah, right. heh.
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Shaddaq's Avatar


Shaddaq
02.11.2012 , 11:46 AM | #45
Hello,

My suspension of disbelief is my limiting factor.

It says something about good vs bad storytelling when I can buy the idea of aliens and hyperdrive and ancient humans in far-off galaxies, but I can't buy bounty hunters missing their targets from across the table, or smugglers choosing to wait for an assassination attempt to be consummated before defending themselves.
-Shaddaq (IBM PC/XT, 640k RAM, Argent EGA Adaptor, 2x5.25" Floppies.)

"If you Wrong Us, Shall we not Revenge?"
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Jatraril's Avatar


Jatraril
02.11.2012 , 12:48 PM | #46
Han shot first in the original. Greedo had the drop on Han. His pistol was pointing firht at him. Han used his cunning to distract Greedo, draw his blaster, without Greedo noticing, and shot first. This fit perfectly into Han's character as a smuggler who lives by his wits and was only out for himself. It was in the later movies his character changed as he became more involved in the war and Lea.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
02.11.2012 , 01:20 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
No, it makes him Chaotic Neutral with good leanings.

A Chaotic Good character would never, for example, kill a child. Well, maybe not never, but it would be a HELL of a special circumstance.

Where as a Chaotic Neutral character, even with good leanings, would be more likely to kill a child if, in the end, everyone prospers.

Chaotic Good would steal from the mob.

Chaotic Neutral would steal from the mob and kill any of them that got in the way.

It's subtle, but it's important.
I don't think even the "shoots first Han Solo" would ever kill a child. So really the difference you are describing sounds minimal to me. There's still more to define his character than that one scene.

JadeBranch's Avatar


JadeBranch
02.11.2012 , 02:11 PM | #48
The reason why it matters is because, like someone else said earlier on, it changes Han Solo's character. If you don't see how that changes it then I don't know what to say. It's the little things that give personality too, their actions and such, not just their dialogue. It was a character building scene, particularly because this is the first time you really see anything of Han Solo.


Plus, another reason why it matters to me, is because it's hard for me to believe that Greedo was only like...3 feet away from Han and IN FRONT of him no less and still managed to miss. It's a serious stretch of disbelief for me to the point where it's sloppy and overly cheesy.

JadeBranch's Avatar


JadeBranch
02.11.2012 , 02:23 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Shaddaq View Post
Hello,

My suspension of disbelief is my limiting factor.

It says something about good vs bad storytelling when I can buy the idea of aliens and hyperdrive and ancient humans in far-off galaxies, but I can't buy bounty hunters missing their targets from across the table, or smugglers choosing to wait for an assassination attempt to be consummated before defending themselves.

Also this, pretty much. Probably the best written post in this whole thread and the number 1 reason why anyone should care about Han shooting first.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.11.2012 , 02:33 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by JadeBranch View Post
The reason why it matters is because, like someone else said earlier on, it changes Han Solo's character. If you don't see how that changes it then I don't know what to say. It's the little things that give personality too, their actions and such, not just their dialogue. It was a character building scene, particularly because this is the first time you really see anything of Han Solo.


Plus, another reason why it matters to me, is because it's hard for me to believe that Greedo was only like...3 feet away from Han and IN FRONT of him no less and still managed to miss. It's a serious stretch of disbelief for me to the point where it's sloppy and overly cheesy.
So before where he was acting all for himself, greedy, and self interest completely changed when he didn't shoot first?.....Ok last I checked throughout the whole movie, he still is the greedy and self interest person up until near the end of the movie.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
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