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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?

Cythereal's Avatar


Cythereal
02.16.2012 , 10:57 AM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiralai View Post
As would I, though you're right that a number of the lines and content would have to be altered to accommodate the difference in gender. I know there's instances of my SW being called "woman" and "wife" in companion cutscenes.

Spoiler
The female SW's romance with Malavai isn't the only one that brings up having kids. I know Vette does, too, but she explicitly suggests adoption because twi'leks and the SW's race may not be cross-fertile.

Wouldn't be a problem for f/f couples, though. Some species on Earth in real life are all-female and sexually reproduce just fine, and scientists have artificially induced it in other species with the aim of eventually making it possible for humans. Should not be a problem for the Star Wars bioengineers to do it.

LyriaFrost's Avatar


LyriaFrost
02.16.2012 , 11:02 AM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Hero-sexual is the way to go. It solves so very much in one swoop*.

The VO lines, well, I can imagine that a bit of creative seamless editing would fix whatever needs to be fixed - though most of the lines don't seem to need that much tinkering.

* = Even if swooping IS bad.
It does, yeah. It honestly wouldn't take that much tweaking, too. I don't think there are THAT many lines of VO'd dialogue that directly reference gender, in the romance arcs (then again, I haven't seen them all; I only recently made a male BH to try out Mako's romance, and he's only like 20th so far). But I wouldn't think that every single one of them would have a specific gender-reference that would have to be changed. And even then, it'd be easy to splice in an alternate word.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raiellyn View Post
... Yes, much better phrasing than mine.

If I don't get Dorne for my next trooper soon, I will *not* be a happy camper.
And that's already taking into account my natural snide and sarcastic disposition.

(Note to Bioware; Mako is an acceptable second-choice.)
Romancing Dorne as a woman would be soooo much fun. She gets all flustered and stammery when she's flirted with as a man (that I've seen), I can only imagine it'd be even moreso while being chatted up by another woman. So cute.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kiralai View Post
As would I, though you're right that a number of the lines and content would have to be altered to accommodate the difference in gender. I know there's instances of my SW being called "woman" and "wife" in companion cutscenes.

Spoiler
Yeah, the cutscenes would have to be edited a bit. Like I said above though, I can't imagine there are THAT many. And they could be tweaked a bit with some creative editing. As far as a letter goes, that's super-easy to edit, just have an alternate one for a same-gender romance. It's just text.
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Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
02.16.2012 , 11:08 AM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
Hmm. All my posts from yesterday have been removed. I can see this thread really is a discussion of some individuals "working with the forum moderators closely to keep this thread on track". Oh, the political correctness.
I've had numerous posts deleted when I let myself get carried away, and even have received an infraction against my account. So, no - moderation is not one-sided. If you have questions about forum moderation, though, try communitysupport@swtor.com. It took a few days, but they were very forthcoming regarding questions I had.

Quote:
My points from yesterday - one last try:
1) Don't re-work content if it costs money
2) Implement same-sex romances options in a moderate fashion making NPCs sexual orientations proportional to our society's orientations.
1.) Some of that money is mine, and I for one would like some existing companions to be available for same-gender romance. A lot of people in this thread have expressed a similar desire. These are the companions we know - perhaps the only ones we will know this side of Level 51. That, and everything they do for this game costs money.

2.) We really don't have any clear idea of what the demographics actually are, for one. And for another, ought not the determinant factor instead relate to metrics deriving from how players choose to experience the game? It's a gameplay issue, not an issue of societal realism - otherwise there would not be many Jedi or Sith running around, would there?

Cythereal's Avatar


Cythereal
02.16.2012 , 11:12 AM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
2.) We really don't have any clear idea of what the demographics actually are, for one. And for another, ought not the determinant factor instead relate to metrics deriving from how players choose to experience the game? It's a gameplay issue, not an issue of societal realism - otherwise there would not be many Jedi or Sith running around, would there?
Moreover, not every gay/bi gamer will make every character they play gay or bi, and not every straight gamer will make every character they make straight. More choices are always a good thing.

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
02.16.2012 , 11:15 AM | #505
I think the best solution would be to make every single companion bisexual, like they did for Dragon Age 2, i liked that about DA2.

It would allow you to romance your favourite companion and not be limited to specific gender.

Trolltar's Avatar


Trolltar
02.16.2012 , 12:35 PM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by JamieKirby View Post
I think the best solution would be to make every single companion bisexual, like they did for Dragon Age 2, i liked that about DA2.
I hated that about DA2 so much I returned it. Could there possibly be a lazier solution? Turning everyone bi is half hearted sop to get folks that want same gender relationships to shut up. I would much rather see some actual effort and development go into this kind of feature. Making everyone bi isn't really enabling same gender relationships as much as it is making gender no more then an aesthetics choice. I really hope that that BW doesn't punt and take this half assed approach.
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Jenovan's Avatar


Jenovan
02.16.2012 , 12:36 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
2. The discussion on society is forbidden in this thread. I'm not sure how to back up what I think about the amount of implementation of same-sex relationships when I cannot speak freely because my post will get deleted. So I'll leave it right here and I will only say that I don't think there is any indication in SW universe that the ratio is any different. Claiming otherwise is a huge exaggeration.
Regardless of the ratios in real life or in any supposed fictional universe, putting in potential SGRA companions at this sort of number would be pretty awful to anyone who wanted to explore the content. Let's say on the low end, you assumed that 5% of the SW universe was gay. (I'm not even sure how to put bisexual folk into this calculation..) That's 1 in 20 people, or... 1 companion per faction. Not 1 per gender, definitely not 1 per class, just one per side. At 10%, you'd net 2 per faction, so maybe you could get fancy and have one of each gender.

How would you distribute these companions? Would they be generic and available to all classes? Some have suggested that smacks of "here's your token LBGT companion, have fun!"; the character will not have been crafted to fit into your storyline the way your class companions have. Or would you only give these specific companions to one or two classes? Hey, if you want to have a lesbian romance, you're going to have to play (for instance) Bounty Hunter! Don't want to play 50 levels of pewpewpew? Too bad!

We already have few choices in heterosexual romances, and that's with each class having at least one of each gender. Why deny players wanting to try SGRAs of an equal chance to do so because of real world statistics?

I don't think anyone looks at real statistics when they decide how many blondes and brunettes to put in the game... or tall or short people, or slender or heavy people, or proportions of race... Why start now?
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
02.16.2012 , 12:38 PM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
If they have the whole thing almost ready the discussion is pointless.
We-ell, that's a sore point, isn't it? It is for me, anyway. We don't know if the discussion is pointless because Bioware is refusing to give us information on what's already planned. This whole thread might be pointless; then again this whole thread might be of utmost value, because the developers might b paying very close attention to it.

We just don't know. And a little communication on the matter really could clarify whether we're all wasting our time here or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
If they don't I don't think they should spend money on it.
Considering the clear fact that other content, which does need fixing, is already being given priority over this matter I don't see any reason they shouldn't spend some money on developing it.

A lot of us are already fond of the existing characters and it's not going to suddenly take those characters away from the people who have them in opposite-sex relationships.

Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
2. The discussion on society is forbidden in this thread. I'm not sure how to back up what I think about the amount of implementation of same-sex relationships when I cannot speak freely because my post will get deleted.
<shrugs> Don't know what to suggest there.

Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
So I'll leave it right here and I will only say that I don't think there is any indication in SW universe that the ratio is any different. Claiming otherwise is a huge exaggeration.
You're right, there is no indication that it's any different. But on the same note there's also no indication that it's not, and claiming otherwise on that point is, likewise, a huge exaggeration. There's no hints, really, either way. We only know that same sex relationships haven't had a huge part in Star Wars lore and canon to this point.

For my own part, I'd point out that it's a huge galaxy. Within it are billions of stars and millions of theoretically habitable worlds, space stations and so on. Given the diversity of cultures that we know can exist on one planet I think that it's fair to say that in Star Wars there would be uncountable numbers of cultures and sub-cultures.

Coruscant alone could be host to hundreds of thousands of regions each with their own cultural idiosyncrasies. Even just on the basis of sheer mathematical probability it's highly likely that on that one capital planet alone there'll be some groups that accept same sex relations and others that reject it.

When you multiply that by the number of theoretically inhabitable worlds the statistical likelihood is very high that we'd encounter same sex friendly cultures and also extremely homophobic ones.

How Bioware wishes to implement that, well, that's a different matter entirely - and one that they're being very close-lipped about.

Above all I want more details from Bioware as to what directions they're leaning in. Otherwise we're really all just shouting into a storm.
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vandana_'s Avatar


vandana_
02.16.2012 , 12:38 PM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenovan View Post
How would you distribute these companions? Would they be generic and available to all classes?
1 for each class and gender.
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
02.16.2012 , 12:41 PM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by vandana_ View Post
1. I believe a significant majority of people (including myself) would like the subscription money to be spent elsewhere. If this issue is so important to some people though - let's make it proportional.

2. I answered that in my post above. As for Jedi and Sith - I believe for the period when the game is placed in the SW timeline (Old Republic) the numbers aren't any exaggerated while claiming that everyone you meet is bi is highly exaggerated.
1. You can say that about any feature. The nature of the MMO beast is that: there will be content you don't like/use but someone else does. You have to share this game with many other different types of people. I'm sure that the majority of users don't even bother with the romance subplots period but those were still included for the minority that play through them. Polling results show that most people don't care if SGRA is implemented so it seems they aren't worried that their money is being used for it.

2. It's not 'everyone you meet is bi' if they go the 'hero sexual' route with romance companions. For starters, you probably won't even know they swing that way unless you pursue it. Furthermore, the romanceable companions are a small percentage of all the people you meet in game. I really don't like this hyperbole....making all the romance companions 'hero sexual' = EVERYONE IS BI! It doesn't make for a good argument.


Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I hated that about DA2 so much I returned it. Could there possibly be a lazier solution? Turning everyone bi is half hearted sop to get folks that want same gender relationships to shut up. I would much rather see some actual effort and development go into this kind of feature. Making everyone bi isn't really enabling same gender relationships as much as it is making gender no more then an aesthetics choice. I really hope that that BW doesn't punt and take this half assed approach.
It seems you assume these romances should make a huge deal out of gender or sexuality when they typically aren't written that way. It seems they focus largely on the characters involved and not what's between their legs. Thankfully...because it wouldn't be all that interesting if they did the latter.

Thus, it's not difficult to incorporate an SGRA into an existing companion that's OGRA....there still will be differences beyond 'aesthetics' but they won't be so major that they overwhelm the romance subplot. There's no reason for them to write two vastly different romance arcs for male vs. female.

You also assume they take this approach b/c it's 'easy' and not b/c they want to offer more choice and be fair.