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in defense of the prequels


Flowstrodamus's Avatar


Flowstrodamus
02.09.2012 , 09:41 PM | #1
First things first let me start this off; I love the prequels. If you're here a troll here to try and piss me off or someone who's just going to rage with no direct purpose then leave, because your replies will be ignored. I understand why many people do not like them; there is bad writing, weak acting, silly characters, and much much more. But I feel the real reason why people hate them is because (and I'm sorry I have to use this term, its the only way I can describe it) hipsters have invaded Star Wars. People hold the originals in a higher regard than the prequels, and why? Because they were there first. Hell, even calling them the "originals" is a little pretentious don't ya think, as if the prequels are some cheap knock off made by a fan and posted on YouTube. When you look at the big problems with the prequels and compare them to the originals you see the SAME EXACT problems. For example...

Writing: We all know two things about George Lucas; firstly, he has a brilliant and wild imagination in which he created a wonderful universe that we all love and secondly, that he cannot write dialogue for a damn. Especially love scenes. Its almost awkward to watch Anakin spew his heart out to Padme (I'll touch on the acting in a little bit, I'm not putting all that blame on Lucas). But the same goes for Leia and Luke (Incest George? Seriously?) and eventually the much, much older Han Solo. You can't attack the writing of the prequels without mentioning it was equally as bad as the originals. People also point out that there are numerous loopholes. Does anyone remember how Return of the Jedi ended? They killed the Emperor. They took the most powerful empire in the galaxy and removed its leader creating a giant gaping wound in the stability of the galaxy. Now any Moff or Admiral with enough support from his troops can attempt to seize control. Or maybe one of those crime syndicates? Maybe the Hutts band together (highly unlikely I know) and they attempt to take over the galaxy. In short they may have caused an even bigger problem then they had to begin with. Great happy ending huh?

Acting: One scene that gets pointed out a lot for both cheesiness and its bad acting is Vader's final scream of "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" at the end of Revenge of the Sith when he finds out Padme is dead. His very purpose of living, the love of his life Padme, was now dead. Super cheesy right? Not the best acting? Anyone remember when the bomb was dropped that Darth Vader was ACTUALLY Luke's father? Luke, who had believed his father was a war hero of the Clone Wars, a valiant Jedi Knight, had his entire world destroyed. His purpose up to that point had been to avenge his father with the death of Vader. Now he didn't know what to do. What was his reaction? "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Like father like son I guess?

Silly Characters: Alright now almost everyone can agree that if they go to see TPM in 3D that Jar Jar is going to annoy the crap out of them. The Gungans are probably THE most hated species in all of Star Wars lore, simply because of one clumsy Binks. In fact, on a thread discussing possible planets to add someone mentioned Naboo and many people said that would be a horrible idea just because the Gungans might be included. No one could possibly like the Gungans expect for a little kid, right? I can attest to that. When TPM was originally released I was in first grade and rushed to see it, dragging my parents to the movie theatre. Guess what? I absolutely LOVED Jar Jar Binks. I thought he was hilarious. I laughed at every stupid thing he did on screen. I can still see Liam Neeson grabbing his tongue, that had me in stitches. Is there anything comparable to the Gungans in the prequels? Perhaps those furry little teddy bears? The Ewoks were ridiculous. I loved them and wanted one of my own when I first saw ROTJ, but watching it now I realize they're ridiculous. I loved every second of screen time they got though. All this leads me to finally why I believe people hate the Prequels....


Most of the hardcore Star Wars fans can remember the first time they saw A New Hope. The older generation can remember when it was only called "Star Wars" and they saw it in theaters. How old were they when they first saw it and loved it? Teens maybe? Thats the oldest I'd say. In the TV show they show perfectly what I'm saying; Eric Foreman loved it while his dad Red thought it was stupid. Everyone saw them when they were younger and all the faults got looked over, the same way that when I think back to playing PS1 the graphics were amazing and now my phone has better graphics. Every fault was perfect. Then when they heard that new Star Wars movies were out they got all of their friends to see it, and they were appalled. These new movies had so many faults! The acting was horrendous! What the hell are Gungans?!

Those of us who saw the prequels at a young age will tell you, looking back they were amazing. But when we found a Star Wars community so adamantly against them we conformed.

It all comes down to people being just a bit pretentious; the originals ARE better, because they saw those ones first. Those were their early memories. The same way that I look at the Clone Wars TV show and hate it is the way that you look at the prequels. I understand it completely. All I wanted to do was offer my defense of movies that I grew up watching. Thanks for taking the time to read all this (and sorry it was so long)
Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur.

Today is a good day for someone else to die.

Flowstrodamus's Avatar


Flowstrodamus
02.09.2012 , 09:42 PM | #2
we all love star wars so im open to any criticism and debate, but lets not hate
Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur.

Today is a good day for someone else to die.

swooper's Avatar


swooper
02.10.2012 , 12:40 AM | #3
I don't mind Eps 1-3. Ep3 is for me is behind ep 5.

Three things that do get me annoyed are: midichlorians, over saturation of computer graphics and the movies being too perky. Espically the battledroids.
Look at the monkey. Look at the silly monkey.

-=Squadron 419=-

Flowstrodamus's Avatar


Flowstrodamus
02.10.2012 , 12:58 AM | #4
a lot of people get upset about the midi chlorians. if suggest reading the new darth plagueis book. really good and they go into and explain what theyre supposed to be exactly.
Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur.

Today is a good day for someone else to die.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.10.2012 , 01:34 AM | #5
I think the real reason for a lot of the hate is simply unrealistic expectation. I was literally raised on Star Wars; one of my earliest memories is my mom telling my dad and I that we're going to watch a movie, but she won't say which one. We're waiting for it to come on, the suspense is killing me, and I suddenly hear that famous music, and I just go berserk. Before I even have a memory of having seen the movie, I'm aware of it and love it. It's that ingrained in me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Star Wars literally changed the world, changing popular culture, the concept of how movies were made, what science fiction could be, etc. The only reason Alien was made, for instance, is because 20th Century Fox wanted to follow up the success of Star Wars, and so green lit the first science fiction script they got, which happened to be Alien. ESB and RotJ followed up on the original, creating an epic that was unmatched at the time, and few franchises have managed to match its scale since (Lord of the Rings being the only one that I think came close, and that already had an established epic to work from.)

In the face of such staggering effect, was there really any shot that the prequels would have the same effect as the "originals?" Of course not! Expecting to have the same feeling you had watching Episode I as you did when you first saw Episode IV was simply an unrealistic expectation, and you have only yourself to blame if you were disappointed.

Now, I'd like to expand on a few things that people cite as "ruining Star Wars," and expand on why they really didn't, if you're still someone who's prepared to allow the creator's vision of his story to take shape, instead of demand it fit into whatever preconceived notion of it you had.

Ewoks: Ewoks are flat-out awesome. Yeah, they look like teddy bears, but I want to defuse the immediate "Lucas put teddy bears in Star Wars for teh kidz!" and point you to Classic Creatures, an old making-of special that I watched several times on tape as a kid and is on the Blu-Ray release of Star Wars. Lucas talks about creating the Ewoks, and talking about in his original script idea the final battle against the Empire would take place on and around the green moon of Endor, but that the inhabitants of that moon would be Wookiees. When Lucas realized that he couldn't get to that final battle in one movie, he shelved the idea, but the Wookiee was so important in his mind that he had to include it, rather than leave him for a sequel that might never get made (Lucas was terrified, even after Star Wars' opening week, that the film would be a complete disaster.) So, when it came time to create the final battle against the Empire, Lucas felt he couldn't use Wookiees, because Chewbacca had proven to be a capable, tech-savy character, and the key part of the fantasy aspect of Star Wars is the technological might of the Empire failing utterly when presented with a primitive, stone-age culture that simply wants to win badly enough. And so, taking the concept of the Wookiee, but instead of making them really really tall, he made them really really short. And you have to remember, at this point, that Lucas himself did not design the Ewoks. That's what Phil Tippet and his studio is for. Lucas says in Classic Creatures that as the design evolved, more and more fur got put on, and it began to take on a very cute aspect, which they initially fought very hard, but in the end "dared to be cute." And for anyone still doubting the Ewoks' ******ery, remember what they plan to do the very first time you meet them as a people? That's right, they plan to cook and eat Han Solo.

Gungans: Gungans are also ******. Sure, Jar-Jar is a fool, but as a species, the Gungans are awesome. Name me another race in Star Wars that carries portable shield generators into battle, not only to protect their army as a whole but to allow individual troops to be protected from enemy fire and reflect firepower back at their attackers, in a way that doesn't rely on Force-driven attack-anticipation tricks with a lightsaber. Go ahead, I'll wait. Yep, Gungans be awesome. And Jar-Jar gets, I think, an unfair amount of hate. A lot of people straight up don't realize, forget, or ignore the fact that Jar-Jar was instrumental to the climax of Episode I even taking place. Without his offhand mention of the Gungan Grand Army to Amidala, she wouldn't have had the resources to formulate a plan to free Naboo. I do think the character could have used something else, some obvious thing that he contributed to the group. . . and I do admit to missing him in AotC and RotS.

Midichlorians: Again, a lot of people dramatically misunderstand what midichlorians mean. They labor under a number of assumptions:

1) Midichlorians create the Force: True, only so far as humans, Rodias, Twi'leks, Hutts, mynocks, and space slugs all create the Force, too. Midichlorians are living things, and Obi-Wan says "The Force is an energy field created by all living things." Yoda says "Life creates (the Force), makes it grow." Thus, midichlorians only create the Force as much as any other living thing does.

2) Midichlorians ARE the Force: False. The Force is an energy field, created by all living things. Midichlorians are not the Force.

3) Midichlorians demystify the Force: False. The Force is still an energy field that transcends time and space (if it didn't, you wouldn't be able to see the future and the past through it, or see distant places, or communicate "telepathically" with others, or even have the microseconds of advance warning necessary for you to deflect a blaster bolt with your lightsaber.) All Qui-Gon says about midichlorians is that "they speak to us, telling us the will of the Force." Wait, the Force has a will? That actually lines up with Obi-Wan and Luke in Ep IV, "Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him." "You mean it controls your actions?" "Partially, but it also obeys your commands." It controls, obeys, and has a will? As T7 would say, Mind = Blown.

4) Midichlorians reduce the Force to genetics: Falseish. Force-Sensitivity cannot be a wholly genetic trait, otherwise the Jedi would have not-bred themselves to extinction hundreds of years ago. Force-Sensitivity MAY be passed from parent to child, but it does not necessarily have to be. Given what we know from the above, that the Force has a will, then it seems to "choose" at birth who to gift with Force-Sensitivity and who not to. Why? That is part of the great mystery which is the Will of the Force.

5) Midichlorians reduce the Force to biology: False. The Force is still an energy field, but that energy needs to be made accessible to the body in some way. That's the function of the midichlorians, to "translate" the energy of the Force into something usable by the body of a Jedi. The Force itself remains as it is. . . that which binds the galaxy together. All midichlorians do is provide the scientific reason WHY this energy is able to be utilized in this manner. This is part of a larger fallacy that has only recently been challenged in fiction, which forbids magic and technology from being in the same story. If your story has magic, it can't have any device more advanced than a crossbow, and if you have guns, then any supernatural critters have to have a thin sci-fi veneer painted over them (I'm looking at you, vampires of Blade and Underworld, and Lycans of same), and if you dare to include spaceships and rayguns, you'd better not even mention the possibility of there being something mystical in the universe, too. Star Wars "broke" this "rule" by having the Force in a setting with spaceships and rayguns, so why not break it further by allowing science and magic to interact on a meaningful level? Science can absolutely explain HOW a Jedi taps into the Force to achieve its effects. That does not make the Force any less mysterious, magical, or powerful.

Midichlorians are unnecessary: Depends on your definition of unnecessary. Was it unnecessary to explain how the Force works? Possibly, but as I show above, midichlorians don't really explain how the Force works, but how Force-sensitives use the Force, a subtle but important distinction. Midichlorians do not explain how a place, like the cave on Dagobah, can be strong with the Force. Was it necessary to have an explanation for why Anakin is the "Chosen One," and what that means? Absolutely it was. Was it necessary to have a test to confirm whether or not someone is Force-Sensitive? Given all the hubaloo the EU went through trying to do so before the prequels, you betcha.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
02.10.2012 , 02:22 AM | #6
I watched the first Star Wars at the drive-in when it came out in the 70's. I was 5 years old. So, yeah, I definitely have an emotional attachment to it.

I also have many criticisms of the prequels. Mostly the plot of Episode 1 (still not sure why the Trade Federation occupied Naboo), and the "romance" of Episode 2 was horrendous.

That said, I have just as many complaints about the originals.

Overall, I loved the prequels and the originals.

The ONLY thing about the prequels that actually bugs me is continuity breaks that had no reason. How hard would it have been, for example, to have Padme sitting with Bail and his wife at the end of Episode 3 (showing she faked her death). A 2 second shot there would have completely merged that scene with what we knew of from the OT.

But overall, I have no beef with the prequels. Great fun, IMO.
"I know."

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.10.2012 , 02:37 AM | #7
The Trade Federation occupied Naboo because Darth Sidious told them to. The only reason he did so was to have himself elected Supreme Chancellor and set the stage for the Clone Wars, allowing him to eventually destroy the Jedi and create the true Sith Empire that Sith Lords had been dreaming about for thousands of years.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

internaty's Avatar


internaty
02.10.2012 , 03:47 AM | #8
Good to see a other person loving the prequals.

Only thing i dislike about the prequals is that anakin fell to the dark side because of love that has bin used so often it is boring but love it for the rest.
knowledge is power.
use it well.

Good players take any and all advantages they can get, actually. It's why they are good.

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MustrumRidcully
02.10.2012 , 03:59 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Flowstrodamus View Post
First things first let me start this off; I love the prequels. If you're here a troll here to try and piss me off or someone who's just going to rage with no direct purpose then leave, because your replies will be ignored. I understand why many people do not like them; there is bad writing, weak acting, silly characters, and much much more. But I feel the real reason why people hate them is because (and I'm sorry I have to use this term, its the only way I can describe it) hipsters have invaded Star Wars.
I don't know if there are some hipsters that invaded Star Wars, but I actually believe the real reason are the real flaws of Star Wars. It's not about nostalgia coloring the original movies as some mythical perfect movies that the prequels needed to exceed. It is about the prequels being bad movies in their own right. At best, the prequels are failing against high expectations. But I think they also fail against "normal" action flick expectations.

The good thing about them may be the CGI. But even that I find questionable. Sure, there is a _ton_ of it, and some it is good. But I would even challenge that it's used all that well. Too many scenes are too ... busy with CGIthat you can actually miss what is actually happening. It's kinda like playing background music and sound so loud that you miss the dialogue.

The best defense of it is that it shows us what technical possilbilities we have with CGI, and also show the practical limitations that arise for directors and actors in still telling a compelling story with all its "non-technical" elements (plot, emotion, interaction).

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
02.10.2012 , 04:03 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ErikModi View Post
The Trade Federation occupied Naboo because Darth Sidious told them to. The only reason he did so was to have himself elected Supreme Chancellor and set the stage for the Clone Wars, allowing him to eventually destroy the Jedi and create the true Sith Empire that Sith Lords had been dreaming about for thousands of years.
I get that. I meant what was their excuse? Why did they officially say they were creating the blockade? What was the reason they gave the senate?
"I know."