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Why pvp is balanced

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Why pvp is balanced

Howbadisbad's Avatar


Howbadisbad
02.09.2012 , 03:49 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Delavager View Post
A) That's your opinion.
B) Better survivability doesn't applies in scenarios where you aren't taking damage.
C) You can heal other people, you can't "Survive" other people.

And since you will counter with "Assassin's can guard other people" which is true, how do you compare guarding with healing? Two different abilities with different uses.
A) I concede the point

Although your heal isn't going to help you in a fight unless people decide not to attack the guy who is sitting there healing himself.

B) The 15s regenerate heals at a similar rate to kolto injection (From my own experience)

C) Healing is not typically done by Concealment because they are better off trying to deal damage in most situations due to long casting time. It could be useful in a clutch though.

Delavager's Avatar


Delavager
02.09.2012 , 03:52 PM | #32
AND on top of all this, there's another HUGE factor in balance:

Learning Curve

Some classes are "easier" to play then others. Some classes shine at the top tier of play where as some shine in the lower tier of play.

Typically FOTM classes a shine in the lower tier of play because it's easy to do well with without much knowledge of what you are doing.

At different levels of play, different classes play differently.

For example, a lot of players don't have the know how/reaction time/care to use interrupts and stuns against casters. This would give a HUGE advantage to casters. If in order for your class to be balanced against a caster you need to use 100% of you skills, and you are only mentally capable of handling 90% then that class is imbalanced FOR YOU.

Same thing goes for casters who don't root/kite/snare melee.

Something like Commandos who can literally 1 button kill things, that's a huge example. Compared to any other class that only spams one button they dominate. However when you start getting into the higher levels of play, when 20+ buttons are used, then they don't so so hot.

So then where do you balance? Do you balance at the noob level? Do you balance at the top tier level? Somewhere in the middle? What middle?

Again it's all super subjective.
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cupofwater's Avatar


cupofwater
02.09.2012 , 03:52 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Jibbie View Post
A person's ability to "succeed" with a class in a team-based PvP system against other players of varying skill and gear levels does not make that said class "balanced."

The word succeed is incredibly vague and subjective, and as such, it can be twisted and redefined such that all classes could "succeed" irrespective of actual class balance.

Balance should be indicated by a class's ability to perform very specific roles as well as other classes can perform those roles. If one class can perform better than other classes and perform better in a greater number of rolls, than that class is not balanced.

You defended that Operatives can perform well, but if an Assassin can do the same things but better, than Operatives are not balanced. "Succeeding" is irrelevant.
Succeeding is very relevant for pvp,
Your argument comes down to "Assassins being able to outperform Operatives"
This argument itself is extremely vague because both classes perform in similar and different ways. IMO the Assassin is in no way stronger then the Operative

Opener: Operative > Assassin
Stun Lock ability : Operative > Assassin
Sustained Damage on single target: Operative < Assassin
Burst Damage: Operative > Assassin
Survival: Operative < Assassin
Ability to help teammates (Guard/Heals): Assassin > Operative
Overall Damage: Operative ~ Assassin
"SEDUCTION"
"The dark is generous, and it is patient."

Delavager's Avatar


Delavager
02.09.2012 , 03:57 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Howbadisbad View Post
A) I concede the point

Although your heal isn't going to help you in a fight unless people decide not to attack the guy who is sitting there healing himself.

B) The 15s regenerate heals at a similar rate to kolto injection (From my own experience)

C) Healing is not typically done by Concealment because they are better off trying to deal damage in most situations due to long casting time. It could be useful in a clutch though.
You are trying to prove assassin is better than operative. I am not saying one way or the other. All i'm trying to show is that it's impossible to prove, that it's all subjective and dependent on a lot of things.

I personally think Assassin's make much much much much much better huttball carriers than operatives. But that is just one roll in many in huttball. I think operatives make better "support" for the huttball carriers with their ability to lock down a would be pursuer. I also think operatives make much much much much much better enemy huttball attackers/score prevention with their burst and ability to lock down.

How do you balance that as a whole class though?
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Howbadisbad's Avatar


Howbadisbad
02.09.2012 , 03:58 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by cupofwater View Post
Succeeding is very relevant for pvp,
Your argument comes down to "Assassins being able to outperform Operatives"
This argument itself is extremely vague because both classes perform in similar and different ways. IMO the Assassin is in no way stronger then the Operative

Opener: Operative > Assassin
Stun Lock ability : Operative > Assassin
Sustained Damage on single target: Operative < Assassin
Burst Damage: Operative > Assassin
Survival: Operative < Assassin
Ability to help teammates (Guard/Heals): Assassin > Operative
Overall Damage: Operative ~ Assassin
Mobility (Assassin > Operative)
CC (Assassin > Operative)
Overall damage (Assassin > Operative)

More mobility means more uptime which means more damage and utility.
Assassins also have better CC once they are unstealthed.
You spend most of a fight unstealthed.

Also I'm not sure why you separated Burst, Opener, and stunlock. Ops burst/stunlock is their opener. Outside of that is sustained damage and normal CC.