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The PvP Deception Thread


insendial's Avatar


insendial
02.09.2012 , 09:39 AM | #1
This thread is for all things Deception PvP (minus QQ).

PvP Builds:
Surging Charge Spec
7/31/3 - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bcMZGGbRkhrbuzZc.1

Variants:
Toughsin Spec (Uses Dark Charge)
11/23/7 - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...r0kMr0zZf00M.1

Variants:
Deridia's Toughsin Spec (Uses Surging Charge)
23/17/0 - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMkoMskZGMdRk0M.1
Specs in Testing:
Does a spec not work? Post here and lemme know!

Got an awesome Deception spec? See above!

Ability Priority:
  • Assassinate
  • Force Slow (if they aren't slowed already)
  • Maul (with Exploit Weakness)
  • Shock (w/ 2 Induction and 2 Voltaic unless saving)
  • Voltaic Slash (or Thrash if you aren't 31+ point Deception)
  • Discharge (w/ 4+ Static Charges)
  • Shock (w/ 2 Induction)
  • Discharge (w/ <4 Static Charges)
  • basic attack
How does a priority system work?

A priority system is an alternative to a rotation, and one which is significantly more useful in an ever-changing PvP environment. Using one is very simple: each time you're about to use an ability, you go down the list until you find one that is available (note the conditions in the parenthesis when deciding whether to use an ability. Slowing a rooted target is useless, after all; better to save the slow for when the root wears off).

What is this saving you refer to?

Fighting ranged classes is not uncommon. One thing that ranged classes really, really like is staying out of your melee range. If you're facing someone who is trying that, saving Shock and Discharge for when you can't use your other abilities can be a good idea.

Example: You jump a Mercenary in Huttball with Spike. You have approximately 5 seconds before they knock you back (2 for Spike, 1 for animation, 1 for lag, 1 for reaction). If you go VS->VS->Shock, then you're out of melee range and can only Discharge until you get back in or Shock comes off CD. However, if you go VS->VS->VS, when they knock you back you can use both Shock -and- Discharge, resulting in more damage.

Remember that saving is situational! You don't need to save Shock and Discharge every time you fight a ranged opponent.

PullinStuff's Avatar


PullinStuff
02.09.2012 , 10:09 AM | #2
FYI 1.1.2 made it so you have to be in Surging Charge to use the things you want out of Deception (Most Likely) Torhead is not loading right now...

My plan was to run my SIN as a 0/33/8, but I rolled a second to run with my wife since she wants to be a sorc, I think I will run that one as a madness.
Pullinstuff Saber of Exar Kun BH MERC (Formerly Pullin Stuff Naritus)

venjinze's Avatar


venjinze
02.09.2012 , 01:05 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by insendial View Post
This thread is for all things Deception PvP (minus QQ).

PvP Builds:
Surging Charge Spec
7/31/3 - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bcMZGGbRkhrbuzZc.1

Variants:
  • 5/31/5 with 2/2 Sith Defiance instead of 2/2 Lightning Recovery
  • x/31/x with 4/5 or 5/5 Crackling Blasts with no points in Static Charges
  • 2/2 Entropic Field w/ no points in Static Charges

Toughsin Spec (Uses Dark Charge)
11/23/7 - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...r0kMr0zZf00M.1

Variants:
Does a spec not work? Post here and lemme know!

Got an awesome Deception spec? See above!
Voltaic is your bread and butter 6% added dmg > armor penetration anyday, 9% armor pene on heavy armor classes = .

This is what I currently run with but I am going to be trying a darkness/madness hybrid this evening.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZGGbRkhMbtzZf0c.1
I'm a beast.

Deridia's Avatar


Deridia
02.09.2012 , 01:41 PM | #4
I only ran it a couple times because I'm really used to the full tank spec, but I saw some pretty serious damage with decent survivability with this spec running surging charge.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMkoMskZGMdRk0M.1

Short rotation. Maul if weakness is up otherwise, trash, thrash, shock, discharge.

I was putting up about 250-280k and this was just in like 3 WF's so it was before I really got a feel for it. I was just getting an idea so i wasn't even concentrating on my trinket and adrenal rotations. The burst was nice. I was very consistently Thrash for 900x2, maul for 3500, shock for 2500, discharge for 2300. I'd finish with assassinate whenever necessary, but it usually wasn't. I wasn't as squishy as I feared I would be. The 50% armor boost put me at like ~3300 (27% reduction) if I remember correctly so it was still feasible for me to kill 1 of 2 in a 2v1 and then escape.

I liked it enough that I'll eventually try it again once I have all my crit/surge mods swapped into my gear.

insendial's Avatar


insendial
02.09.2012 , 05:57 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by PullinStuff View Post
FYI 1.1.2 made it so you have to be in Surging Charge to use the things you want out of Deception (Most Likely) Torhead is not loading right now...

My plan was to run my SIN as a 0/33/8, but I rolled a second to run with my wife since she wants to be a sorc, I think I will run that one as a madness.
iirc nothing in the toughsin spec requires Surging Charge. I'm about to log in to confirm that.

EDIT: Confirmed that the surging-less toughsin spec listed above is still possible in 1.1.2

Quote: Originally Posted by venjinze View Post
Voltaic is your bread and butter 6% added dmg > armor penetration anyday, 9% armor pene on heavy armor classes = .
I take Charge Mastery over Thrashing Blades because it also grants a bit of extra durability should I need to switch to Dark Charge (which I do in pugball).
Quote:
This is what I currently run with but I am going to be trying a darkness/madness hybrid this evening.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZGGbRkhMbtzZf0c.1
Lemme know how that goes.


Quote: Originally Posted by Deridia View Post
I only ran it a couple times because I'm really used to the full tank spec, but I saw some pretty serious damage with decent survivability with this spec running surging charge.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rIMkoMskZGMdRk0M.1

Short rotation. Maul if weakness is up otherwise, trash, thrash, shock, discharge.

I was putting up about 250-280k and this was just in like 3 WF's so it was before I really got a feel for it. I was just getting an idea so i wasn't even concentrating on my trinket and adrenal rotations. The burst was nice. I was very consistently Thrash for 900x2, maul for 3500, shock for 2500, discharge for 2300. I'd finish with assassinate whenever necessary, but it usually wasn't. I wasn't as squishy as I feared I would be. The 50% armor boost put me at like ~3300 (27% reduction) if I remember correctly so it was still feasible for me to kill 1 of 2 in a 2v1 and then escape.

I liked it enough that I'll eventually try it again once I have all my crit/surge mods swapped into my gear.
Sounds good!

Corydonn's Avatar


Corydonn
02.09.2012 , 06:13 PM | #6
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#2000cZhGrRkGRrtzZb.1

This is what I was using for awhile for testing deception pvp. It's insanely fun to play with a MASSIVE amount of burst, But it just doesn't work.

Deception PVP will just never work at the moment because it requires being in melee range and having position when all of the tools to keep position are in Darkness talents. AE CC just rips deception apart and there is PLENTY of it, I wouldn't mind seeing seeing the AE damage talent worked into something that mitigates AE CC just as much if not more to make deception a viable pvp spec.

insendial's Avatar


insendial
02.09.2012 , 06:36 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Corydonn View Post
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#2000cZhGrRkGRrtzZb.1

This is what I was using for awhile for testing deception pvp. It's insanely fun to play with a MASSIVE amount of burst, But it just doesn't work.

Deception PVP will just never work at the moment because it requires being in melee range and having position when all of the tools to keep position are in Darkness talents. AE CC just rips deception apart and there is PLENTY of it, I wouldn't mind seeing seeing the AE damage talent worked into something that mitigates AE CC just as much if not more to make deception a viable pvp spec.
Deception PvP only requires being in melee range. Maul is a bonus, not a necessity.

Corydonn's Avatar


Corydonn
02.09.2012 , 06:40 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by insendial View Post
Deception PvP only requires being in melee range. Maul is a bonus, not a necessity.
Being behind someone and running about not getting hit = Positioning. And being in melee range is a bit flawed right now ><

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
02.09.2012 , 06:55 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by venjinze View Post
Voltaic is your bread and butter 6% added dmg > armor penetration anyday, 9% armor pene on heavy armor classes = .

This is what I currently run with but I am going to be trying a darkness/madness hybrid this evening.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZGGbRkhMbtzZf0c.1
This would depend on what the armor penetration is.

the tool tip says your attacks. I dont know it thats all attacks or all attacks that do Surge damage.

If its all attacks, then the 6% damage of VS is not really a lot. we use VS a lot, but the armor reduction would affect our hard hitting skills as well, I think

BIG_M's Avatar


BIG_M
02.10.2012 , 09:47 AM | #10
these are the builds i switch between currently getting used to the first one though

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZhGrRkhrbtzZf0c.1

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZhGrRkhMbtzZf0c.1
Harbinger Midian
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