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General PvP Skill Level

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
General PvP Skill Level

booshido's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 09:49 AM | #51
I have to agree with most of what the OP stated.

WoW's skill cap is not the best, but it's THE benchmark nowadays, whether you care to admit it or not. I wish it wasn't but when the MMO community made its decision to leave EQ in the dust and flock to that game, the rest is history.

One glaring problem is the fact that SWTOR has auto-facing. Why the hell this was even considered is beyond me. Simply press your buttons and the game does the rest for you. This is a testimony of how BW/EA want to attract as many as they can to fatten their bottomline, hardcore PvPers be damned.

In terms of cooldowns this in and of itself is a flawed mechanic. I've never been a fan of the idea of multi-minute cooldowns, and considering SWTOR is a 'nextgen' MMO I expected to see something game changing not gaming same-ing. I won't bore you with what I feel is best instead, SWTOR is what it is.

My thoughts can be summed up simply as this -- SWTOR made a decision to play it safe. They made PvP to appease not redefine.

What's the point? What's the point to run WZs over and over again? What's the point to group with your guild? Where's the satisfaction when your faction does well? It all rings hollow. PvP's essence, and what makes it so fun is the challenge, camaraderie, and the advancement of your faction/guild/character -- in that order. Personal gain SHOULD be merely a welcomed side effect, not the primary reason.

Finally, the greatest trick Devs have played on PvPers is the belief that gear is the major motivational factor and the reason one should Q up. Yes, you can PvP to PvP, get those wins and big numbers, but at the end of the day your left with only one option, do it again for that last piece you need.

Ok kids, now it's time to bring other MMOs that had PvP that I have yet to see replicated:

Shadowbane - Yes it was click to move, yes it had balancing issues here and there, and yes it had barely any PvE, but it had the best guild vs. guild PvP I've ever seen. Your guild was who you are not your gear, not your achievements, and not your mount / vanity pets. Your reputation was made on the battlefield through teamwork. Tight knit groups could destroy zergs, and this is what I remember as exhilaration.

UO - Hi, my name is danger, have we met? Going outside alone is not recommended.

Asheron's Call - The newb zone was so much fun I didn't want to do anything put shoot people with arrows and pick them up again for hours. Twtich PvP was something to marvel.

EQ Rallos Zek - I remember when night time made venturing out down right pulse pounding. I hated those with the fungi tunic, but I still look on EQ PvP fondly. It still makes me smile when I remember killing someone, and they began to get naked (putting their gear in their bags so you couldn't loot it) before they were going to die.

EQ was primarily a PvE game, but that didn't stop SOE from rolling out servers that had some game altering rules. Rallos Zek was a 1 piece of gear lootable server if you killed someone. Sullon Zek had 3 factions, SWTOR could pull a rabbit out of its hat if it made a ballzy move and gave BH / OP / Smugs / Troopers the ability to choose to be a separate faction on one server. I guarantee that server will not have population problems if they executed it correctly.

AoC had some good moments as well, but not nearly as many because of it's fleeting presence as a MMO with any kind of staying power.

Wrap it up Boo ->

PvP will always be my one true love even when I get grey hair. I still keep in touch with those I PvPed with in Shadowbane, a game released in 1998. Memories from how we fought still stand the test of time. Maybe I'm a hopeless nostalgic whore, so be it, but memories being made in SWTOR are similar to what I felt after going to see Transformers 3 or Spider Man 3. I know I was there, but why can't I remember any moments that compel me to want to go and watch, in this case, play it again?

EasymodeX's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 10:08 AM | #52
that's why you never made the cut in WoW PvP and especially Arena.
You had a good rant there until you implied that arena was any decent benchmark of PvP skill.

World PvP, you mean based on the side that brings the biggest team? You know, one can easily turn that argument around on you so really don't call someone a chest thumper one way then try and crow about how the other is so much better.
Biggest team? Lol.


I bet kids like this also refuse to believe that 6 players could beat 24, or that 8 could kill 140.

Sabbathius's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 10:34 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by booshido View Post
and considering SWTOR is a 'nextgen' MMO I expected to see something game changing
There's nothing next-gen about SWTOR. Nothing at all. Not a single bloody thing.

Voiceovers? It's been standard since 2003-2004. Maybe not in MMOs, but most other genres for sure. And now that we have it, I think most will agree it was money wasted. EVERYONE I talked to, at some point started to skip dialogue on non-class quests.

Decision-driven? Again, nothing new. Goes back to late 90s. Again, maybe not in MMOs, but other genres for sure.

And that's another thing. First time I went to Quesh, there were 4 players there, myself included. Is that an MMO? First time I went to Hoth, there were 12 players there. Voss? 8 players. Etc., etc. Can this even be considered an MMO? And before you ask, there was just one instance of that planet. An average Battlefield 1942 map had 64 people, for crying out loud. But this is an MMO? I don't think so.

Kugron's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 10:41 AM | #54
While I'm not too happy with the pvp myself I must say that your post wreaks of "I don't like this game and anyone who does is automatically bad". You probably could have made your official post sound much more legit had you not insulted the entire playerbase as many times as you did. You basically sound like an elitist arena douche who is mad because he has no way to stand above the rest so he can turn his nose up to everyone.

If you don't like the game that's fine, may you have better luck in another game, but don't bash the people who are somehow looking past the unacceptable number of bugs/exploits and still being able to enjoy themselves. I also won't entirely jump the boat and say it takes no skill, but if it does then let then let the folks you call "bads" have fun in this game and you can have fun in w/e game you end up with(GW2 looks pretty sexy). The insults are just plain obnoxious.
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Abelf's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 11:18 AM | #55
I agree that SWTOR PvP lacks complexity. It is hard to tell the difference between a decent player and a good player. This problem is exacerbated by gear being the deciding factor most of the time.

There's also only a small learning curve for classes and you can only get so good at playing a certain class. After putting in minimal thought considering the most effective way to play your class, most PvP skill advancement comes from being better at general PvP strategies that are independent from class.

After acquiring a decent skill level, the best avenue to increase performance is gearing up.

SWTOR is heavily reliant on implementing team strategies and coordination. Individual skill levels matter much less than getting the whole team on the same page.
You will have more luck embracing death than resisting it.

vindianajones's Avatar

02.09.2012 , 11:33 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Deshie View Post
What other numbers would there be? Of course subscription. Why would I need to get my mind back? Swtor already lost 20% subs in the first month. It's going to be even more awesome this month to see them losing subs again. Better yet I'll even go as far as to say that Swtor will die before this coming summer.
Yet this retention rate after the free month is higher than expected - as are their number of subs - according to analysts and the price of their stock. 80% retention after the free month is not necessarily bad. Why are you making it out to be? If we see a sub 60% retention after the second month then that could indicate a problem, but so far these rates appear to be at or above par for the course with new MMO's. If they succeed in advertising and continue to build their subscription numbers, they can easily maintain a good turnover and keep a relatively large player base. Nobody has a clue what the number of active subscriptions is going to be come month three, so it's not even reasonable to assume things like that.