remember when mmo groups had more than 3 functions?

I remember:

1. warrior
2. Cleric
3. Enchanter
4. whoever
5. whoever
6. whoever

being the standard.

After they ramped up mob damage to crazy levels (edit and buffed the hell out of druid/shaman healing and pally/sk tanking and bard CC) it was

1. tank
2. healer
3. puller or CC
4. Slow/debuff
5. dps
6. dps

Back in my day we had to walk uphill to the quest objective then back uphill to turn in the quest with a whole battalion of players neatly organized into separate platoons and squads in charge of separate areas of the map which was open world and had no instances.

I was just a lowly foot soldier. Things were better then...

Yep, I miss playing FFXI. This three role thing is kinda boring. I miss my hybrid Red Mage. I wish there was a non-healing support/hybrid role I could play in this game.

I think EQ and FFXI are still around, hint hint. I love these ppl with rose tinted glasses.

Sure it was great when you had a full party of 6 and everything was going smooth but here is something I also remember:

Waiting hours upon hours in Jeuno trying to form or get an invite to a PT.
Having an XP party break after 15mins because the tank or healer bails.

Even earlier would be Vox raids where we'd toss copper pieces on the ground so people had something on their corpse to allow for a rez (you rezzed or popped at your bind point naked in EQ, all of your gear and coin was sitting on your corpse wherever you died) since that fight could go bad when she'd complete heal herself if your mana draining classes were off or dead.

Good times, epic times and terribly missed.

That is not how I remember D&D and AD&D, every group was based on the Tank, Healer, CC/DPS triad. As for the AI aspect I wonder what the DM sitting behind the screen rolling all those dice was for?

No it wasn't it was EQ and FFXI where you had to spam LFG for hours trying to find a group so that you could go kill one mod at a time wiht six people for hours on end in the hope of leveling up. This was back in the day when MMO's could be a viable second job in leveling a toon and selling them for a grip of cash unlike today where leveling is so easy it's made it so the price tag of a max level character is too cheep for anyone to care.

I for one like the changes, though the holy trinity of tank, heals and dps needs to be done away with. If you're healing it's because you're losing, tanking should be about controlling a fight and dps should be what everyone is doing. I think Guildwars 2 will address these issues very well.

Your numbers are WAY off

A shaman had a 75% slow; an enchanter had a 70% slow (forlorn deeds, and later versions of that spell). Beastlords had a 65% slow. Bards had a 55% slow (1 minute duration, so a little dicey but servicable in group content). Rangers could proc a 50% slow with earthcaller; that was risky, but worked in a pinch for groups/soloing.


An enchanter slowed mob put out 20% more damage than a shaman slowed one; later on, with slow mitigation, this became less of an issue. So a shaman slow was preferred, but an enchanter could fill in.

No, an enchanter slow could cut it in raids.

You really needed both an enchanter and a shaman, or a mage and a shaman to debuff resists properly to reliably land it anyway (you needed tash and malos). Preferably with a bard to twist in their mr debuff song until slow is landed.

EQ was about roles:

Tank
DPS
Heals
Slower
Buffer
Evac'er
Puller
Offtank
Messer

But usually you got combo roles:

Warrior - Tank
Cleric - Healer
Bard - Slower Buffer
Monk - Puller Offtank
Wizard - DPS evacer
Enchanter - Messer


Group dynamics were so awesome in those days... but I understnad why they cut back. EQ was like an alternate life... and not as much a game to relax playing.

Although, I do wish they did not do away with CC. I know it slowed dungeon run down but the AE fest that dungeon have become is bland. I miss charm juggle mez with my Bard or Enchanters.

really EQ was about the holy trinity: Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter.

those 3 + whatever other 3 schlubs they wanted to carry around = a group. They didn't fix that until PoP and later. Even then, the trinity still ruled... but you could get a functional group with other people tanking or healing or ccing.

Bard was a better CC or puller than slower. And if you had one in a group with an enchanter the chanter should have been slowing.

In that group: The enchanter's job would have been: buff everyone (clarity and haste). Tash, slow, additional debuff (-str and such, I forget the name), maybe a dot or 2 if he doesn't need to CC and then sit and med.

either the monk or the bard would have been pulling.

That's because there weren't any normal mobs in dungeons. There weren't even strongs. They were equivalent to elites, even the trash; 6 people beating on something often didn't kill stuff in under a minute (I know, since my slow was 1 minute duration)