SWTOR: Theme-park MMO design. End of the road?

But rather than blame the companies, I blame the players who drove it in this direction.

IMHO the only way forward from here is to mix together elements of the Theme Park, with the Sandbox. Sandbox MMOs alone are too niche to be economically feasible or popular on a large scale. But having sandbox elements in a theme park design, would help subscribers weather the periods between content updates, and give them a reason to keep logging in.

Yes!! I've been trying to put my finger on what is wrong with MMOs today and you've nailed it. The sandbox days are over, but the themepark MMOs are "beaten" too quickly and are too much been-there/done-that, even in a brand new game.

But mix the two... absolutely brilliant!

I can't even fathom how devs don't seem to get that this deep sandbox/themepark is what players want to see.. and when a dev does make this (it's inevitably going to happen eventually) mmo, they will rule the mmo market so we'd better get on that and do it first.
SRSLY, HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS BIOWARE?

/exasperated

people burn through the leveling content in 5 days /played and expect more within weeks.

I have had some time to read. I have been in the hospital for days with my wife she has just had our 2nd child. So I am a father and a computer programmer. I have been playing games all my life and I know a few things about mmo's. I am a guild leader and me and my guild have played pretty much every mmo out.
And like alot of other people I to was looking to get away from WoW have been for years not because I don't like it but because we are ready for something new.
Sadly SWTOR is not it.. if they would have spent half the money wasted on VO in the core of the game and things that really matter in the long run the game would have had a chance. Im not even going to get into the countless bugs in raid and end game but just the simple fact that they can't even fix the UI before launch but add more buggy content.
Like so many other people have posted if your going to make a game like other games atleast go farward and improve on what's already out there.. BW has took steps backward and really just pushing people away.

You're missing the variation on point 1: You make a game like WoW, but not as good as WoW.

This game is exactly like WoW. Pick 1 of 2 factions. Pick 1 of 8-10 classes, SWTOR classes being mostly mirrors of WoW classes (see funny warrior ability jpg). Pick spec. Go do quests mostly of the "kill X wolves/collect Y spleens/deliver this package." Level. Put points in cookie-cutter talent builds. Make group with tank/healer/dps for dungeons/fps. At max level, grind gear from dungeons, do dailies, queue for bgs/wzs, do raids/ops.

The ONLY thing SWTOR innovated is the voice acted personal storyline, which is just a window-dressing thing.

In every other way, it's exactly like WoW, only not quite as good. And I'm not even talking about "features," like LFD, LFR, searchable bags, group summons, etc. I mean just the basic parts of the game itself.

WoW: open world, seamless except when switching continents. Day/night cycles. Weather. Interactive NPCs who move and talk. Items you can interact with, like doors to open or chairs to sit in. Mini games at the darkmoon faire.

SWTOR: constrained, claustrophobic world on rails. Loading screens between everything. Pointless orbital stations. Static world with no night no day no weather or climbing no swimming no flying. NPCs are silent statues. Nothing to click on or use.

WoW: multiple quest paths/zones to choose from while leveling (Westfall or Loch Modan or Darkshore?). You can level 2-3 characters and almost never do the same quest twice until the last few zones. Mobs that will patrol and interfere with your fights, that will run when they're low on HP, that will summon for help, that will fear you or otherwise do things that might surprise you. Quest areas that overlap between factions so you might see PvP on a PvP server and have interesting things happen.

SWTOR: one quest path on rails. Play through twice, 80% of the game is the same. Static mobs that have no AI besides "See player. Attack player til dead." Totally separate quest zones that don't even overlap even for the "PvP planet" Ilum dailies. You can level and never see an opposing faction player.

WoW: Complex (or at least more somewhat dynamic) class mechanics (talking currently, not vanilla) that require the player to pay attention to buffs, procs, resources for optimal rotations in healing or damage dealing. Unique class/spec abilities, and a unique 'feel' to each class. Carefully balanced classes (held in check because we can keep the devs honest with meters and logs).

SWTOR: Whack-a-mole healing. DPS rotations that can be macroed to one button on a Razer Naga. Total PvP homogenization where every class can stun and knockback. Class balance? Who knows!

WoW: Tightly tuned, complex fight mechanics. Raids that take weeks or months to clear at difficulties appropriate for casual guilds or hardcore guilds.

SWTOR: Mostly tank-and-spank fights (plus tower of hanoi!). "Nightmare Mode" raids cleared by dozens of guilds within a few weeks of release, "hardmode raids pugged."

WoW/SWTOR: Can't say I like the arena method of PvP progression, but come on...random loot bags? Really?

WoW definitely has its flaws, but SWTOR exactly tried to copy WoW but did it pretty much worse in every way. The two games are EXACTLY THE SAME...except SWTOR's very similar implementation of whatever it is it's copying from WoW is broken and half-assed.

I just don't understand how somebody can dislike WoW, but like SWTOR, when they're the same game, only SWTOR is not as well implemented. It's like saying "ugh, I hate mexican food! It's so gross, it's all just meat, cheese and tortillas! Can't STAND mexican food! But ya know what I love? TACO BELL. Best food EVAR." What? Taco Bell is just a terrible, plastic, crappy version of something like mexican food. It's the same thing, only worse! How can you hate WoW, but like SWTOR? SWTOR is EXACTLY LIKE WoW only worse!

And man I need to close this browser window. I just wasted 15 minutes of my life typing that.