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Enrage Timers Need to be Changed or Removed


Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
05.02.2012 , 08:32 AM | #21
why the forum necro?

Diegles's Avatar


Diegles
05.02.2012 , 09:01 AM | #22
I am ok with Enrage timers. We progressed our way on Toth and Zorn Hardmode, once we got the tactic down, we hit enrage toth at 22% and zorn at 34%. Now that we knew the tactic dps could loosen up, and be more stationary and focus their dps instead of focusing too much about tactics. End result: Toth and Zorn dead.

Fights I personally can see needing Enrage timers in current content: Fabricator, Bonetrasher and Infernal Council.
Fabricator and Bonetrasher are basic DPS races(once positioning is fixed), Infernal Council is a gear check.

The rest of the fights till now are definetly not a DPS race, because the fights promote too much movement(one exception might be Zorn and Toth). These fights could do with a soft enrage, like Doctor Lorrick last phase, or possibly other mechanics like gaining an extra ability, spawning adds, or simply increase their attack speed by say 50%. these things can make the fight more interesting, meaning those people with too little dps would have to increase their DPS to make the fight easier for the healers.

most guilds that are done progressing EC HM by now, have no issues with their DPS and almost never hit enrage(to my knowledge). But those guilds who are still farming their Rakata gear from EC Story Mode, and clearing it in a day, who have extra raid days to spend and chose to spend them on EC HM might end up struggling.

Another thing I've noticed, too few fights make the tanks have to do anything then being a punching bag. The tank swaps that got introduced in EC was a step in the right direction. But you could also introduce abilities which would require the tanks to use a cooldown rotation, maybe run around and pick up effects to counter ability X or something like that.

WhatVVB's Avatar


WhatVVB
05.02.2012 , 09:18 AM | #23
Enrage timers just force you to play the game how Bioware wants you to play it. Strict one tank, two dps, one healer groups only. Shame on you for wanting something different. Eight man ops are two healers, maybe two tanks, four/five dps (depending on how many tanks you bring).

You have two tanks for that flashpoint? Sorry, have one respec. Two healers? Respec. A friend who is a little slow on the dps? Kick his behind to the curb and get a new dps. Show no mercy to your casual guildmates, because Bioware's enrage timers will show you none.

I understand the need for some players to be challenged, but some people's primary focus is to have fun. Because I am not an elitist, because some of my guildmates are casual players who are merely 'okay' at playing, I am undeserving of better gear and should be locked out of certain content? I'm not asking to be handed gear, but because I don't have a proper group setup, I am stonewalled from advancement?

"Well just join another guild that has better players," some might say. If I want to get the better gear, join a better guild. Again, I am being forced to choose between playing with friends or getting better gear, which shouldn't be an issue.

All in all, the challenge of the boss should be in the mechanics, not because it has a time limit. Make nightmare mode have the enrage timers for people looking for that particular challenge.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
05.02.2012 , 09:42 AM | #24
Only one person in this whole necro'd thread is even on the right track.

The primary purpose of rage timers is not a gear check, or to force a particular party composition (beyond a certain point).

The primary purpose is to ensure that you can't cheese fights and take their mechanics out of play. The enrage timer forces you to figure out how to overcome each fight's mechanics, rather than find one or two marathon tactics that work all the time.

Even then, if you look at things like LI, I think it's clear that BW is moving away from just slapping a hard enrage on everything, and moving towards fights with mechanics that include soft enrages. It's somewhat ironic, though, that LI is a much harder gear check than any other "Hard" mode Flashpoint, if only in that you need a certain base level of gear/DPS to win the 2nd phase of the final boss.

That said, any other HM can be feasibly done by fresh 50s who've done a couple rounds of dailies to get purple armoring/mods.

ephran's Avatar


ephran
05.02.2012 , 11:02 AM | #25
I would just like to see enrage timers that start out lower and slowly build rather than instantly giving a boss mob the ability to hit 200% harder between 1 second and the next. What would be the harm in having it gradually build over the course of a minute? This would give groups starting out doing them a little more chance to make some minor execution mistakes and still be successful, while letting them know they still have to improve their strategy or gear.

Instead we have a case where if an under geared or inexperienced group makes a tiny execution mistake, they might as well jump off a cliff, while a nearly geared group can all but faceroll the encounter without any strategy. It becomes frustrating to the under geared or inexperienced group and makes no difference to the geared group.

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
05.02.2012 , 02:32 PM | #26
I wish threads had an enrage timer, that way this one couldn't have been brought back.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

Onibubu's Avatar


Onibubu
05.02.2012 , 04:02 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by WhatVVB View Post
I understand the need for some players to be challenged, but some people's primary focus is to have fun. Because I am not an elitist, because some of my guildmates are casual players who are merely 'okay' at playing, I am undeserving of better gear and should be locked out of certain content?
You don't want to understand it, do you?
Its called STORYMODE!

HM/NM aren't content from my point of view, it''s the SAME content just harder.
You have your easy faceroll content, so stop complaining!
Knights of the Shadows, Vanjervalis Chain - Republik
T1:10/10 NM T2:4/4 HM
http://knightsoftheshadows.de/

PhoenixMatrix's Avatar


PhoenixMatrix
05.02.2012 , 05:29 PM | #28
Enrage timers are only a part of the much greater issue associated with the WoW-clone generation of MMOs (or EQ clones in some respect), that is pretty heavily emphasized in TOR.

EC HM make it even more apparent. The fact that you must have 2 tanks, 2 ranged dps, 2 melee dps, and 2 healers to do any 8 mans (different numbers for 16 man, same logic but a little more fuzzy). Oh, you absolutely can deviate from this. You can do EV/KP HM with 1 healer. You can do most of the 1.1 content with 1 tank, and part of the 1.2 stuff too. You can do it with 4 melees. Point is, they are dead set on trying to force it on us.

A boss that has mechanics to TRY en enforce (Note: my point isn't that they are successful, but they try):

Tank swapping forcing 2 tanks.
Keeping 2 separate groups of 4 away from each other, forcing 2 healers.
One of the boss has a crippling AOE that falls just short of ranged dps.
One that requires people to be within range to spread damage from the tank, encouraging melees.
Mechanics that emphasis that the two bosses must die at the same time, preventing strategies such as kiting one while the rest of the group kill the other.
Enrage timers calculated tightly enough to prevent extra tanks or extra healers.

Now, having an encounter like that isn't a problem. Its actually pretty fun. But having all the encounters progressively try to enforce specific group compositions (and with the language the dev uses, it seems like they will try their best to make it even more and more so), and even worse, have only one "solution", really trash creativity and flexibility.

Not only does it make it that if a small guild has a few members of the same class go in vacation, they can't do anything anymore, but it also means that several guilds that don't look up anything online, don't talk to each other, nothing, will all end up beating the encounter roughly the same way, in roughly the same time, with roughly the same group and classes.

Now THATS freagin boring. (Note: I know you can vary a bit. And there's a handful of strategies to get stuff done. But nothing like some non-WoW-style MMOs or online games have, where player skill is the only limiting factor).

While we've done EC HM and nightmare contents without much trouble, many of us find ourselves preferring the easier stuff (EC SM or HM for the rest), just because if, HORROR, someone can't make it that day, we can fill in with whatever class and still go through with a bit of creativity. Which is a shame, because I prefer having a bit of challenge... but class/gear checks aren't a challenge.

Second tank is sick today? Don't have a replacement handy? WELP! Toth and Zorn HM will have to wait~

Dhariq's Avatar


Dhariq
05.03.2012 , 06:55 AM | #29
Yeah the extreme usage of tight enrage timers is just lazy coders and damn booring.

Drewhat's Avatar


Drewhat
05.03.2012 , 08:13 AM | #30
No enrage timers force you to have better gear and figure out your energy management, not to mention team work. Otherwise all PvE would JUST be a healing game. It wouldn't matter who you take in or what gear anyone else besides the healer would wear as long as they could take a few hits and your healer(s) could pull them back up.

You could basically do an all heals nightmare then if there were no enrage timers. Timers are what make DPSers important.