Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Enrage Timers Need to be Changed or Removed


AndiusTheGreat's Avatar


AndiusTheGreat
02.06.2012 , 11:22 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by ZudetGambeous View Post
If you can survive long enough but aren't doing enough dps then your heal/dps ratio will be bad and the boss will enrage according to your plan... so nothing will change?
They can run tests but I am 95% sure that if they ran tests they would find a clear split in DPS vs. Healing Output between highly skilled but undergeared groups, and groups with too many healers. Its like at the duel tournament our server had on Voss this past week. I survived my duels by outhealing my opponents damage. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn my healing to damage ratio in the deuls I won was in excess of 20 healing per 1 damage. Groups that replace hard DPS with more healers would likely have a similarly ridiculous ratio. I put out a lot of healing as an undergeared healer, but I was pushing my limits only getting by washing off negative effects and spamming emergency medpack at our almost-dead tank in some of their fights. (That is what I consider fun as a healer not "Lets minimize the time my team isn't at 100% health.")

Quote: Originally Posted by ZudetGambeous View Post
The solution to a DPS being undergeared and not being able to do as much damage as they should is not to remove enrage timers or come up with all sorts of convoluted systems to make it easier for the dps... just gear up and better learn your class.
First off this comment is written from the perspective of "You aren't doing your job as DPS." Don't insult my skills when I clearly stated in the OP that I am not DPS, but a healer. No matter what you believe the enrage timer has little to do with me as my DPS comes to taking pop-shots and putting DOT at the enemy with an occasional XS flyby if I get the time.

Really I think the function of DPS in a large fight SHOULD be to kill off adds, or too take over misc. tasks like flipping switches if the boss fight calls for it. If DPS is not challenging enough, then start having more bosses that get reinforced by waves of adds or add more misc. tasks. You could even have the waves of adds stack up if they aren't killed off fast enough. (I mean these fights are supposed to feel "heroic" anyway. 4vs1 =/= heroic. 4vs1 + tons of adds = heroic.) What I find too often is we actually ignore adds just to take the boss down faster in order to avoid the enrage timer.
Andius Meuridiar - Jedi Sage - Light Side
Kaemik Meuridiar - Jedi Gaurdian - Light Side
Tharak Meuridiar - Level 50 Sawbones - Light Side
Ajunta Pall - RP-PVP

Kaonis's Avatar


Kaonis
02.06.2012 , 11:36 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Keii View Post
I agree on enrage timers.
One or two bosses with an enrage is an acceptable mechanic, adding to the urgency of those bosses.
Every boss in the game having an enrage is a clutch, nothing more.
This.

I agree with the op 100%. It's a lazy mechanic and completely unfair. The challenge of the boss fight should be in the mechanics and particular strategies of the boss, not in a stupid "Can you beat it in X amount of time before it murders your face?". Battles are boring as all hell with the mechanics as well, because if someone dies for whatever reason, battle rezing them and going on isn't an option, you've lost too much DPS to beat the timer so it's just count as a wipe and redo. The flow of battle is always "Be perfect or ****" and there's never a close boss fight.

If the enrage was something where it would just increase in increments up to a point where it hits hard, but not the 1-2 shot BS it does now, then it would be a non-issue. But the way it is now every fight is timed for no reason other than to be a gear check and it's killing all fun out of the game for me and my guild. If not for enrage timers we could beat anything that came our way, but because of it we hit walls for no reason. A number of us are ready to quit over such a bad mechanic (along with a few other big game breaking things that are being ignored, but that's another topic).

Hxxr's Avatar


Hxxr
02.07.2012 , 12:20 AM | #13
Infernal Council is a gear check.

Enrage timers are not.

They are very generous on most bosses to begin with. There are only soft enrages and with proper CD usage and healing the fight can go on for quite a while after that.
Some encounters that simply need an Enrage or the mechanic would be too easy as you could just take your time and exploit the lack of pressure.

And most importantly you could just run two tanks and five healers and have a raid that can't die. That alone is more than enough reason to keep the enrage abilities.
Even the OP himself acknowledged this fact, so I don't really see a discussion here.

No enrage timers leads to excessive healer numbers, wich in turn breaks raiding as dying will start to become almost impossible. You'd just longer for each kill.

HellFlame's Avatar


HellFlame
02.07.2012 , 12:20 AM | #14
I still wonder how people hit enrage in that game...
SW:TOR Endgame

Hxxr's Avatar


Hxxr
02.07.2012 , 12:34 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by HellFlame View Post
I still wonder how people hit enrage in that game...
Well, in 4-man content if you hit enrage you should just go back and do some more normal mode flashpoints.
In raids it happens. People sometimes die unlucky deaths or the ones clicking the panels at puzzlebot in Karagga's aint fast enough and so on.


@AndiusTheGreat:
Adds are fun as dps from time to time, but every fight with adds?
I play ranged dps for 11 years in various mmo's now and I'd happily quit a game that has freaking adds on each and every encounter.
Adds are a mechanic to make fights more versatile, there I agree. As a staple mechanic it would suck. Having the honor of honing your skills, polishing your equipment and then killing the bosses is something that's just fun to some of us. Min/max style of play is more than just spamming Tracer Missiles and frankly it's a lot more fun too.

HellFlame's Avatar


HellFlame
02.07.2012 , 12:54 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Hxxr View Post
Well, in 4-man content if you hit enrage you should just go back and do some more normal mode flashpoints.
In raids it happens. People sometimes die unlucky deaths or the ones clicking the panels at puzzlebot in Karagga's aint fast enough and so on.


@AndiusTheGreat:
Adds are fun as dps from time to time, but every fight with adds?
I play ranged dps for 11 years in various mmo's now and I'd happily quit a game that has freaking adds on each and every encounter.
Adds are a mechanic to make fights more versatile, there I agree. As a staple mechanic it would suck. Having the honor of honing your skills, polishing your equipment and then killing the bosses is something that's just fun to some of us. Min/max style of play is more than just spamming Tracer Missiles and frankly it's a lot more fun too.
Well i kinda meant it in the way that people start mass posting on forums how unfair enrages are in this game... I mean yeah it can happen on nightmare soa if you miss a pylon but seriously i never experienced a situation where you could actually be stuck because of enrage.

Of course its gonna be harder (not *hard*) if you got not so good gear and you try to start with D7, BoI, FE or Kaon. BT, BP and Foundry should be easy.
SW:TOR Endgame

JuicyJustice's Avatar


JuicyJustice
05.02.2012 , 06:44 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Hxxr View Post

And most importantly you could just run two tanks and five healers and have a raid that can't die. That alone is more than enough reason to keep the enrage abilities.
Even the OP himself acknowledged this fact, so I don't really see a discussion here.

No enrage timers leads to excessive healer numbers, wich in turn breaks raiding as dying will start to become almost impossible. You'd just longer for each kill.

This ^

Onibubu's Avatar


Onibubu
05.02.2012 , 07:55 AM | #18
As a raider I dont understand were the problems with enragetimers are.
They have a reason wich was explained in this thread a few times.

If you have enrage -> oneshot people
or
Shorter enrage but boss gets stronger over time/more adds etc.

It doesn't change the fight.
An enrage is an enrage, no matter how you implement it.

I can understand that from an "immersion" or "diversity" factor it would be cool to have different types of enrages but i think some people are missing the point here.

The problem for "these guys" isn't that there is always the same type of enrage timers. its that THERE ARE enragetimers.
And frankly I like them.

But ok.... lets remove enrage timers and introduce mechanics that one shot you if you dont move out in a millisecond... would be the same :-)
Knights of the Shadows, Vanjervalis Chain - Republik
T1:10/10 NM T2:4/4 HM
http://knightsoftheshadows.de/

Codek's Avatar


Codek
05.02.2012 , 08:06 AM | #19
Has anyone ever really confirmed that these enrage timers are more gear checks then skill checks? I'm wondering if these complaints come more from just bad DPS'ers who don't know how to formulate a plan of attack. And if that is the case then it makes perfect sense for these enrage timers to be in place.

I really need to get my guild to hit all 8 up in greens to see how close the enrage timers really are.
~Codek

Likepro's Avatar


Likepro
05.02.2012 , 08:25 AM | #20
"effective enrage" timers are fine and all but when the game is as young as it is now, it's better to not let players find work-arounds and just out-raid composition an encounter like, by bringing an extra tank or a couple extra healers you trivialize the enrage and it means your dps is irrelevant.

Hard enrages are fine. If you're meant to complete the encounter in X amount of time, that's just another criteria. It's not your decision which criteria of an encounter you want fulfill or not. They're not lazy, and it's whiny posts from people like you that want everything handed to them on a platter and want the game tailored to your liking even if it means completely ruining it for others that take all the fun out of an mmo. If you're undergeared and too lazy to figure out how you can be doing more damage, that's your problem. Not ours. Go back to farming heroics, start googling your class's spec/rotation, and then come back and do current content. EVERYONE else did.
Likewhoa, JK Guardian, Mors Certa, Wound in the Force