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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."

Alavastre's Avatar


Alavastre
02.07.2012 , 01:29 PM | #21
If you want to get down to it, I think there is a lot that is hypocritical in Star Wars. Like the attachment to people. Yet they serve the Republic, which means they have some type of attachment to it. How many people ended up going to the dark side by defending the Republic? I can think of a few, Revan and Malak, Anakin and probably more. Well, Anakin fell because of his attachment to Padame more so than saving the Republic, but you get the drift here.

To answer the OP's question, yes, if the writer was clever it wasn't a throw away line at all. Because they deal in absolutes is one of the reasons why the Sith hate the Jedi, and it's a never ending balancing act between two factions.
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. Thomas Jefferson

Wheezal's Avatar


Wheezal
02.07.2012 , 01:39 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ErikModi View Post
The point of "Do, or do not, there is no try" is that when you decide to do something, you should commit to seeing it through. "I'll try," is most often an excuse, a show of effort, a shrug, followed by "Well, I tried." It is failure before the attempt is even made. Instead deciding to "try," decide to "do." Then, if you fail, you did put all your effort into the endeavor, instead of just the minimal amount required to say you "tried."

As for "only a Sith deals in absolutes," it is part of a much larger context of similarly self-defeating statements. "There's an exception to every rule," "there are no absolutes," etc. Well, if there's an exception to every rule, isn't there an exception to the rule that there's an exception to every rule, creating a rule that has no exceptions? If there are no absolutes, then it is not absolute that there are no absolutes, thus there IS an absolute?

Thus, if there is an exception to every rule, and only a Sith deals in absolutes, the exception to the rule that "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is Obi-Wan saying that "only a Sith deals in absolutes."
/head asplodes

Midasear's Avatar


Midasear
02.07.2012 , 01:49 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by earlallison View Post
You know, there's just no way I can parse that so that it makes any sense considering it's Kenobi saying it to a rapidly descending into darkness Anakin.
The Star Wars films make a lot more sense once you accept that practically everything Kenobi says is intentionally misleading and manipulative.

Gantoris_Aym's Avatar


Gantoris_Aym
02.07.2012 , 06:07 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by smartalectwo View Post
However, dealing with absolutes does not equal dealing in absolutes.
but saying an absolute is dealing in one.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.07.2012 , 06:14 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Wheezal View Post
/head asplodes
Yeap, my work here is done.

/dusts hands
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

smartalectwo's Avatar


smartalectwo
02.07.2012 , 06:20 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Gantoris_Aym View Post
but saying an absolute is dealing in one.
Saying an absolute, there's nothing wrong with. Vacuum is empty. Yoda is green. Chancellor Palpatine is demonstrably and provably evil. Some things are absolute truths.

Dealing in absolutes, though, that's not just speaking in absolutes but directly applying absolute thinking to your relationships with others.
There is no try.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.07.2012 , 06:27 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by smartalectwo View Post
Saying an absolute, there's nothing wrong with. Vacuum is empty. Yoda is green. Chancellor Palpatine is demonstrably and provably evil. Some things are absolute truths.

Dealing in absolutes, though, that's not just speaking in absolutes but directly applying absolute thinking to your relationships with others.
I see where you're going with this.

In the Jedi way, you accept things as they are. Yoda is green. There's nothing you can do about it, it's part of what he is. He's green, deal with it and move on. That's not really an absolute, it's just the way it is.

A Sith dealing absolutes may, for instance, say that Yoda can't be green. He's not ALLOWED to be green. Green is forbidden. Something must be done to make him not green because he can't be green because I SAY SO, DAMMIT!
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

gregordunbar's Avatar


gregordunbar
02.07.2012 , 06:40 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by earlallison View Post
You know, there's just no way I can parse that so that it makes any sense considering it's Kenobi saying it to a rapidly descending into darkness Anakin.

Is this a clever wink and a nod to the audience, that the Jedi Code for all its good intent is hypocritical and the Order deserves to fall? That even Obi-Wan can't see that?

Is it just bad writing? Something that sounded cool unless you examined it?

Or am I seriously just giving a throwaway line too much attention?

I'd love to hear what everyone thinks of the line, as long as it doesn't descend into simple prequel-bashing.

Take it and run
Lucas himself said it was meant to show that the Jedi lost their way and he gave a bunch of hints in the movies...

Yoda telling Obi and Mace that all too often the Jedi show arrogance. That the prophecy could have been misread...even with Qui-gon saying that he would disobey the council again as long as he follows the LIVING force...that means he believed the Jedi were blinded to it by their code.

The chosen one was meant to bring balance to the force and he did. He killed off all but 2 Jedi (movies not EU), then he kills Obi-wan, Yoda dies in exile...then he kills Palpatine as he dies...Luke is left without full training to discover the true force, without the binds of jedi or sith to once again allow the force to flow as it was meant to flow, without the confinds of dark/light by adhering to the UNIFIYING FORCE.

Tersidre's Avatar


Tersidre
02.07.2012 , 07:31 PM | #29
he was trying to be dramatic.... it failed.
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻

Bronze_Elemental's Avatar


Bronze_Elemental
02.07.2012 , 08:12 PM | #30
Only a sith deals in absolutes..... from a certain point of view.