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5k crits, and the myth sorcs don't have burst.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
5k crits, and the myth sorcs don't have burst.

_Minmaxer_'s Avatar

02.06.2012 , 02:02 PM | #1
After several 4900+ hits I finally reached the 5k milestone again. I still have several possible gear upgrades, so its nice to know there are probably more coming the future.

Burst: I can burst for 10k in 3 instant skills when my relic is off CD.

I am making this post in the hopes that there is some information that others will find useful. I have taken a different route with spec and gearing than most, so here are some thoughts from outside the box. Pretty much everything here relates to pvp, as I have done a total of 3 flashpoints in my SWTOR lifetime. I did heal a heroic BT with this spec to get my Biochemical Alloy, no idea if healing other heroics are possible.

My spec:
It is similar to the ultimate hybrid specs, but I have only taken forcebending 1, 50% chance for cast reduction on dark infusion is still really good and I still have instant Whirlwind.

My Gear: I have 2 BM implants, earpiece, weapon and two armor pieces, the rest is champion. I have the 4 piece STALKER set.

2pc bonus: 5m increase on force slow/jolt
4pc bonus: +1 recklessness charge, -15sec CD

But the stalker gear is MDPS and has accuracy enhancements which are useless...
Well, the force master/mystic gear has alacrity mods, which guess what, are pretty much useless...I have replaced the alacrity/accuracy mods with crit/surge. I believe I have 83% surge and 30% crit.

Recklessness. I believe this is our most undervalued skill. With 30% base crit from stats this is basically an auto-crit when you factor in other talents and buffs. If you use before force lightning, all of your ticks will crit. Due to my high surge rating I tick for about 1200 on squishy targets with buffs. This skill is what lets us plan our burst.

When looking to burst, my approach is generally to pop relic and red buff, force lightning until wrath proc, pop recklessness then chain lightning, deathfield,and shock. The last 3 skills should all crit, and depending on gear and armor type of my opponent will deal between 8 and 11.5k.

Odds and Ends:

The only time I use a spell with a cast-time is when I am casting dark infusion on myself out of LOS, or healing another player that is getting focused. I heal good players, doing good things. I think a lot of healers are too concerned with trying to keep everyone alive, but when trying to cap points you are more useful to your team trying to kill people. I don't think this is ever cut and dry though, you really have to read each situation and determine what to do. Sometimes its more important to let your ally die so you can kill a guy 5 seconds faster, especially on Voidstar when trying to beat a respawn.

Affliction feels like a waste of a GCD in this spec. It is useful on stealthing classes and people trying to cap doors/turrets, or when chasing someone and both shock and force slow are on CD. You also don't want dots on a target if you need to use an emergency whirlwind. It can also be dispelled. Good healers will dispel your slow, affliction goes right along with it.

I hardly every use crushing darkness anymore. The initial 2k hit compared to 3.5k from an average chain lightning crit does not seem worth it. You also can't discount the psychological factor of big numbers. People see big numbers and they run, which pretty much makes them free kills. The dot portion can also be dispelled.

Stun and run. I can't count the number of times people have caught me low on health thinking they have a free kill. I stun them, they stun break, then eat the full 8 second duration of my whirlwind as I run away and heal.

1v1 I die to good melee. The ones that know how to manage their interrupts, leaps, stuns and my resolve bar. It may take them a minute, and sometimes through use of the power-ups in WZs or help of team members I will live. Sometimes I can be frustrating enough that they will give up. But it is inevitable, the only questions is how long. Thankfully there are very few melee that know how to play their class to the fullest.

That's enough of a brain dump for now...I am open to questions, criticisms, discussion, and trolling.

Ohm of Hedarr Soongh
OHMX of Fatman formerly OHM of Hedarr Soongh
Blaze of Siel (Aion) / Tamil of Skull Throne (WAR)

SquiBBo's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 02:56 PM | #2
the 5k crit was on what targter?

light armor, 0 pvp gear, mostly in greens?
u were using relic, red?

in this case, maybe yes maybe could u do that. but the point is this : equally geared players or any non light armor target and u can be happy if u even get a 4k crit =)

speaken from personal experience only ofc , 82% surge . 1.6k will , 34% crit and around 500 of this pvp stat (dunno the name , as im playing with the german client , pendant to Blizzards resilience)

another thing, didnt they nerf recklessness and wrath in last update. meaning u wont get the 99% crit chance on CL and CD anymore ? - sidenote , techniocally spoken 99% crit on CD is better than 99% crit on instant dmg if u want to kill an enemy fast. i used this rotation when i ran madness hybrid specc :

pain-->force --> wrath --> reckless -> cd --> force --> CL . its the reckless->cd-->force part that does the dmg here. as all u want to have is ur dots rolling(aswell as a hasted force, dmg just skyrockets then), CL cant keep up with Deathfield anyways, even less with creeping terror.(not given trispecc ofc )

ps. as im re-reading my post i got the feeling i might have written a bit offending. I didnt mean to do that, just the result of my words , im just too tired to rewrtite it.

edit: i think the dot i called pain is actually called affliction in the english client.

House_of_Elnino's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 03:55 PM | #3
what spell do you get 5k hit on your line up? Looking at it and I dont see what spell you using to get the 5k HIT

_Minmaxer_'s Avatar

02.06.2012 , 04:22 PM | #4
The 5k crits were on two different characters, a shadow and a sage using chain lightning following a wrath proc for the 20% damage bonus.. They were both full health so it is unlikely they were debuffed, but were most likely fresh 50s in poor gear. I was using the red buff and champion power relic at the time. I also use the red matrix cube instead of a second pvp relic so I sit around 620 expertise.

Also being try spec I have access to 10% more damage on AoEs, so a 3.6k crit for most is a 4k hit for me. 4k to 4.4k hits are quite common, as the numbers approach 5k the frequency is rarer.

Recklessness, wrath and chain lightning together have always behaved as expected: lots of big numbers are people scattering/dieing quickly.
OHMX of Fatman formerly OHM of Hedarr Soongh
Blaze of Siel (Aion) / Tamil of Skull Throne (WAR)

House_of_Elnino's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 06:01 PM | #5
what are your stats again.. willpower and such...

currently have 1278 endurance and 1419 willpower...

29.29% crit and 84.76 critical multiplier...

these are just with my own buffs and no other buffs...forgot what my stats are when fully buffed in warzone...

also is chain lighning considered an AE DMG and gets buffed from Forced Suffusion???

Anelyn's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 06:15 PM | #6
All AoE attacks are buffed by it (heals too). The thing is, Death Field should be the highest hit / crit since it deals internal damage and completely ignores any armor the target has, so even if CL has a higher delve, it gets reduced by armor by minimum 15% (light armor, if not higher). If Crushing Darkness was internal as well, Madness dmg would be great, but being kinetic CD will do very little dmg on tanks compared to DF / Affliction / CT which all deal internal.

Yes a healer can dispell dots, but they can't dispell everything. Is RNG, as you will have on them: affliction, crushing darkness, CT and the snare from FL. They will dispell 2 effects which can be the snare (instantly reapplied from FL channel) and 1 dot. The dmg from DF and FL are good enough for pressure (as well from remaining dot / dots after 1st purge) that they will have to consider sparing another global on cleanse or healing. I am constantly purging myself when facing other sorcs (as well as melee force users since most of their snares are force, and dots too), but I can't do it on cooldown, as there are loads of things going on and you need to put some pressure / get distance as well etc (interrupt/ knocback and so on).

The fear that Full Madness / Ballance is not viable is unfounded, same as with marauder anni or sent watchman.

Anyway gz on that 5k crit, I will prolly attempt to get that number with a full lightning spec stacking surge and power and counting on autocrit from TB (internal dmg) to see if I can get close :>

_Minmaxer_'s Avatar

02.06.2012 , 06:48 PM | #7
I can post my complete self-buffed stats when I have access to my character.

Edit: Stats with Rakata stim (136WP and 56 power) and self buff

1286 Endurance
1587 Willpower
625 Expertise
319 Power
1217 Force Power

670.7 bonus damage
483.3 bonus healing
30.36 Critical Chance
83.61 Critical Multiplier
4.97% Activation Speed

Both chain lightning and death field are buffed by force suffusion.Chain lightning is always cast with the wrath buff which grants it +20% damage putting it above death field.

Dispel obviously doesn't totally invalidate dots, but it does lessen their potential effectiveness. Dispelling the Assassin/Shadow snare is my favourite use of the ability.

The fact that CD does kinetic damage and that I'm not specced up to deathmark is what really turns me off. The frequency at which I use it has definitely decreased as I have geared up.

I can't speak to the viability of full spec into either tree as I've never tried them. Some people obviously have success with those specs. I've basically played this spec since reaching 50 and gives me everything I want from a ranged dps and more. I've played both dot and DD based casters, but never before have I had a dispel (if limited), and heals at my disposal before. It doesn't seem fair sometimes (and perhaps it isn't).
OHMX of Fatman formerly OHM of Hedarr Soongh
Blaze of Siel (Aion) / Tamil of Skull Throne (WAR)

Anelyn's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 07:47 PM | #8
That's why is most likely they will kill the hybrid spec, either by moving wrath up 1 tier or some other moves like they did for sins / shadows.

Probably they can attach an UA mechanic on creeping terror for balance, and give deep lightning a haste buff on affliction dispelled from target? (i know similar to wow mechanics, but those worked pretty nice, peeps actually have to think about dispelling risk & reward).

I would love to play lightning myself, but if TB doesn't get buffed in dmg to make it worth spend 2s on a cast while avoiding / baiting interrupts and knocbacks / los problems, it the dmg is similar to a DF crit (yes 50% vs 30% crit dmg bonus difference, but DF is also aoe so imho pretty balanced from that point of view).

They could also make lightning barrage a tier 4 talent for lightning to become exclusive for this spec, then each spec would live on it's strengths and weaknesses.

The hybrid is more powerful than either pure spec by confering chained burst and mobility without need of casting. Which makes the burst unpredictable and unavoidable.

Lightning: if I let that sorc finish TB cast with affliction on me while he glows of sparkles, i will eat a huge TB crit into CL into shock = ouch time! Interrupt / los / knockback or pop a defensive CD! (by huge I don't mean 5-6k Crits on TB, but 3-3.5k should be possible at a moderate level of gear, so that min-maxers would push it to 4-4.5k top)

Madness: every 15s burst with DF and CD which should do summed up ~5k if both crit (which I believe is close to their current dmg no?). And same pressure from high sustained dmg as before.

Atm I really feel lightning is a wash in term of dmg / burst compared to a merc or sniper for example (both being more or less turret mode rdps).

Other ideas?

_Minmaxer_'s Avatar

02.06.2012 , 08:23 PM | #9
At the very least I expect wrath to be given the "This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds" treatment. I don't think they are to the point of adjusting skill position in trees yet.
OHMX of Fatman formerly OHM of Hedarr Soongh
Blaze of Siel (Aion) / Tamil of Skull Throne (WAR)

Anelyn's Avatar

02.06.2012 , 08:51 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by _Minmaxer_ View Post
At the very least I expect wrath to be given the "This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds" treatment. I don't think they are to the point of adjusting skill position in trees yet.
But that won't change anything (or much) since CL has 6s cd, and CD has 15s cd (which are pretty much only or most used cast time spells for the proc).

Hope they won't follow WoW mechanic, of having to fill a tree till 30 pt before putting points in other trees (which would kill all hybrid specs for all classes).