The number crunch desire, why?

Did you pick skills?

Then you're playing the numbers game. Look at the skills. They involve math considerably.

If they didn't want people focused on numbers, they really should have defined skills differently. They are steeped in numbers.

Did you progress after the substitution?

The problem I have with DPS meters, gearscore, etc is they are no replacement to learning how to play your class... You can have the best gear in the game with the highest gearscore highest DPS/threat/heals... But if you dont know how to play your class your useless...

I still remember back in the days of Vanilla when my lowly little hunter in greens and blues would out perform against guys in all top tier gear. Why? Because I learned my class and knew its strengths and weaknesses. Unlike everyone else, I dont think a DPS meter or gearscore precludes me having to actually learn how to play my class.

Vanilla WoW, Onyxia... I would constantly give my guild heart attacks because I would purposely blast my DPS up to just below the tank then feign out... I was a master at it. The vent would explode with shouts at me "NO!!!!" and "WERE GONNA WIPE!!!". But then I would feign and they would cuss me to no end. Here is the rub. I didnt use a DPS/threat meter. I knew my class and I knew the fight. I knew when she moved a certain way I needed to feign. In the dozens of times I never caused a wipe. Caused a few strokes though... I loved it. And it taught them a DPS meter is not god. Pretty soon they were all looking at how to actually play their class instead of just relying on numbers.

In the second WoW guild on a different server I was part of, during the WotLK days, we had a warlock that had great gear. Yet he would always die the first minute of every boss encounter in Naxx. Why? Because he would blow his mana that first minute and blast his DPS through the roof. So in the end yah his DPS was amazing. But he died constantly. And he would brag about how his DPS was better then everyone else's. To which I would usually reply... "Yah but my repair bill is better ya jack wagon."

Numbers are fine.. But learn to play your class first and foremost. DPS meters take that away.

Tyr

I don't understand your post. It seemed like you were going to make some sort of argument about how a DPS Meter isn't indicative of your abilities in a raid...but then you basically just went on to brag about how you pwnzrd Onyxia.

If you're topping a damage meter in a raid, then it's safe to assume you know how to play your class well. The only way you could suck and still top a DPS meter, is if everyone else in your raid sucked too. But that would quickly become apparent -- if all your DPS are =/- 10% of eachother, and you're hitting an enrage timer, then it doesn't take a genius to recognize it as a systemic problem.

If you're DPS on a fight, and assuming there's no alternative objectives in the fight (ie. hit that switch when X happens, or don't hit Y when X happens), you only have two personal goals: 1) Top the DPS chart and 2) Don't die. So yes, a DPS meter is a great tool for determining value in raids.

This is the problem actually. Now, I don't want to say you're a bad player or don't put any effort into it etc, but you're statement pretty much sums it up: Why would the average player bother with figuring out how to play his/her class well, if there is no way to tell?

Let me clarify on this before everyone starts flaming about elitist dps jerks etc:

Encounter design in SWTOR is pretty simple right now, there are only a few abilities, if at all, there are just ae skills that bother melee by knocking them back. So "movement" is not an indicator for skill really.. but every damn boss has an enrage timer. So DPS actually matters very very much in the current content but you have no way to tell if you're doing well, no way to tell if your tank is building enough threat (sometimes I draw aggro on a boss 2 times although I reset it completely once [can't do it for quite some time afterwards though]), no way to tell if your healers are healing the right targets or for the right amount.

Right now everyone just runs around guessing what's good or what's not and if your grp or raid can't kill a boss due to enrage timer you just stand there and don't know why. You don't know if your performance is good or you need to improve.. I don't find this as relaxing as you do though, I find it frustrating having to guess while trying to down a boss or build a raiding guild with the goal being to get bosses on NM down regularly, now and in future content without being able to tell a bad player from a good player.

Same goes for random.. it's not that much fun running around with a few strangers and wiping due to enrage timers not knowing who's "fault" it is or if with your current gear and performance you are actually able to down bosses like the Sith Entity in false emperor or others with enrage timers like HK-47 maybe etc.

I like doing the math on specs and analyzing logs and all that stuff in order to improve my own performance or the performance of an individual raidmember. Not everyone does and they don't have to, but I don't see the problem with enabling it for the part of the community that wants to play this way. So many people are afraid of swtor becoming another game with GearScore addons etc although before GS there was "meet at dala fountain for gear inspection", just took you longer. When playing with random guys and wanting to finish the FP some people will always figure out a way to rule out other players they don't find desirable, with or without addons.

But the way it is now people simply don't care about their performance which becomes a problem... I know I'm the minority here as someone who just wants those tools for himself and a raid and doesn't care much what other people do, bcause back in wow there war always these wannabe elitists who'd point out your "mistakes" and whatnot in a very annoying way.

I DPSed Hammer Station yesterday on my level 18 Commando and we had a Sentinel that was level 14. Were we probably carrying him through the FP because he was lower level than everyone else (18, 19 and 22 for the others)? Sure. Do I care? Nope. Everything died just fine.


If things are dying, I'll carry you all day. Just stay out of the bad and don't break CC and we're good.

I would say that when you start crunching numbers to determine how to "play" your class, you are no longer playing, you're working.

Why do you equate playing a game the ways its supposed to be played with having to make it a job? Learning how to press a few buttons in the correct order and in certain situation requires nothing more than a little bit of practice. Your argument is horribly flawed and based of something that isn't even kind of true.

Because people like to have a way to measure their performance and get better at playing a game?

It's really a simple concept.

If you're the type of person that's content with medeocrity then by all means don't use any type of logs that could potentially be provided in the future. That's the beauty of optional additions - they're OPTIONAL.

Unless you closed your eyes when selecting skills, you've crunched numbers to determine how to play your class.