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The Entity


JediArchives's Avatar


JediArchives
02.10.2012 , 03:50 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by RevMg View Post
It makes no sense for her to be Kreia when it comes to her personality. The Entity calls Emperor "my love". Seeing as Kreia despised Nihilus and Emperor is Nihilus on steroids it is completly out of character. Not to mention Kreia coudln't have possibly known about the Emperor's existence. (it was never hinted, and you can call her a liar, but in the Trayus Core i will argue she said no lies). If they really make it happen, and destroy her orginal agenda just to turn her into another Emperor's puppet it will only speak of how much they really care about KotOR2 or that KotOR2 plot was too complicated for them to follow...
How do you know she didn't encounter the Emperor after her death? The Emperor himself is more like a spirit, or a bunch of spirits, and he could literally strip the force from an area, something Kreia would have admired and loved. (Remember, she wanted to destroy the force)

Also, Kreia did know about the existence of the Sith Empire. She straight out says they're out there, waiting for the "great war that is to come". And I'm still waiting for Bioware to make a connection between Malachor, it's teachings, and the Emperor, so i have my hopes this is it. Kreia may have even knew more about him then she let on when she was alive.
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
- T Paine

Deviss's Avatar


Deviss
02.10.2012 , 05:09 PM | #12
Btw, here is an intresting quote coming from the game codex entry about the Emperor's true plans (I just read it today when I completed Chapter 2 of my JK's storyline):

Quote:
Every decision the Sith Emperor has made for the last millennium has been in the service of one dark goal: the complete annihilation of every living thing in the galaxy. The Emperor's desire is not destruction for its own sake, however. He is not a nihilist. The Emperor intends to feed on the galaxy's extinction and draw that energy into himself, giving him true immortality--and a godlike mastery of the Force.

The Jedi can only speculate on what the Emperor will do if his plan succeeds. Does he intend to preserve any followers, or live on alone? With such unlimited power, could he plant the seeds of life and raise a new galaxy from the old one's ashes?
Can you see the 'funny' choice of words? :P

I think this hints that Nihilus and the Emperor are in fact very different.
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RevMg
02.11.2012 , 09:15 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
This.

As far as I remember from KotOR 2, Kreia wanted to free galaxy from the force - she was 'compelled' to the exile bacause meetra managed to live while being cut away from the force.

And she did not wanted to eliminate Nihilus just because he killed few jedi. :P She didn't really care. In fact, she killed some jedi later on herself.

So it seems logical that the Entity/Kreia may be attracted to the Emperor because he is the only person in the galaxy that is capable of achieving what she wants, her ultimate goal.
Please point to me when did i say, she had any problem with that Nihilus killed Jedi?

Also she did care. That is why she killed those at the end. It frustrated her, that they were so stubborn and full of themselves, that she did to them, what was done to her and the Exile. Yet they were too weak to survive without the Force and that is why they died.

Also you constantly mention that Kreia wanted to get rid of the Force, and yet you suggest that the best way to do this is to kill everyone in the Galaxy. It's like saying if we wanna have peace on Earth we should simply kill all her inhabitants.

Kreia's goals were more philosophical in nature. Her revenge was not about killing those who did her wrong. It was about "breaking them". She wanted the Jedi to admit they were wrong. She wanted to break Sion. With Nihilus, his death was only option, bc he was more a beast than a man, not to mention the danger he presented.


Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
I think this hints that Nihilus and the Emperor are in fact very different.
Of course they are different. Nihilus became so consumed by his hunger that nothing else mattered for him, over time he turned into sth like an animal, rather than human.

Emperor on the other hand is very similiar to a character from Full Metal Alchemist. (I would say a copy but i don't know if any of the writers watch anime, so i will refrain).

Yet they share some important similiarities. Leaving aside the obvious one, they both are consumed by a single goal to a point they cannot see anything else.

To Nihilus only his hunger mattered. Emperor on the other hand is concerned with achieving immortality at expense of others. (I wonder if they will go with him, like they did with Full Metal Alchemist character. The FMA guy was just absorbing souls into himself and iirc i saw similiar mention in Revan novel concerning the Emperor.)

Kreia wanted to kill the Force, so it would leave ppl alone, so they could make their own choices. (at least from her point of view).

If Emperor succeeds, then:

a) He will be the only being in the galaxy.

b)He may give rise to a new civilization. But if you look at his portrayal in the Revan novel he is only concerned with having slaves.

As you see, it makes little sense for Kreia to turn one overlord(the Force) for another (the Emperor). Not to mention the Emperor posses the same personality flaw that made Kreia despise Nihilus.


Quote: Originally Posted by JediArchives View Post
How do you know she didn't encounter the Emperor after her death?
It is hard for dead people to meet anyone;P

But on a more serious note. Saying she has survived after death, she had to become Force spirit.

In Star Wars canon until The Old Republic, there were two kinds of Force spirits.(i base this on official books i have).

a) lightside Force spirit - mostly Jedi, spirits like Yoda, Anakin, and Kenobi at the end of Return of the Jedi. What makes them special, is that they can move around the galaxy freely.

b)darksie Force spirit - those on the other hand are always anchored to a place where they died, or to certain object If they want to act freely they have to posses someone.

Now the Entity is clearly darkside from what we can tell. I guess we all agree about that one Thus the lightside option cannot be considered. Yet if Kreia was to survive as a dark side spirit, she would have to stay at Malachor V. (it is not rule per say, but dark side spirits do not manifest far from the object they are anchored to in all known sources that comes to my mind).

The problem with the Entity is that she is on Corellia. So for her to be Kreia, Bioware would have to ignore canon, or made her into another sort of being. (bc there is no mention of any object she is anchored to, and it seems she can move freely around the galaxy, except for Baras's spell)

What is even more important, if you want to meet someone you need to know where to look. Kreia admits, she has no idea where to go to find Revan but she says that Revan went after True Sith(she even encourages the Exile to go and search for him). It is logical to assume that she is not lying at Trayus Core. After Exile beat her, it was a moment of truth for both of them.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediArchives View Post
And I'm still waiting for Bioware to make a connection between Malachor, it's teachings, and the Emperor
Drew wasted perfect opportuinity. If he used Malachor V in Revan novel, there wouldn't be a need for one more retcon. But hey, in Revan novel, Kreia, Sion and Nihilus are rouge Jedi...

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cdstephen
02.12.2012 , 01:39 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by RevMg View Post
Emperor on the other hand is very similiar to a character from Full Metal Alchemist. (I would say a copy but i don't know if any of the writers watch anime, so i will refrain).
Emperor = Father.

MY MIND HAS BEEN BLOWN.
The HK droid that absolutely no one likes.

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maxetius
02.13.2012 , 12:26 AM | #15
You can't jive what Obsidian wrote and what Bioware wrote together, at all. obsidian sent Revan into unknown regions to fight the 'True Sith' the idea being something ancient and unknown. Bioware later changed it to a previously unknown ancient immortal darksider (Vitiate)


So given all I know about RETCONS and such... Yeah, the Entity Is Kreia. Do I like it? no. But I don't have to be beaten over the head and shoulders by ham fisted allusions and coincidental descriptions to look up and say, ' oh, I see what you're doing there.'

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nicehunter
02.14.2012 , 06:28 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by RevMg View Post

a) lightside Force spirit - mostly Jedi, spirits like Yoda, Anakin, and Kenobi at the end of Return of the Jedi. What makes them special, is that they can move around the galaxy freely.

b)darksie Force spirit - those on the other hand are always anchored to a place where they died, or to certain object If they want to act freely they have to posses someone.

Now the Entity is clearly darkside from what we can tell. I guess we all agree about that one Thus the lightside option cannot be considered. Yet if Kreia was to survive as a dark side spirit, she would have to stay at Malachor V. (it is not rule per say, but dark side spirits do not manifest far from the object they are anchored to in all known sources that comes to my mind).

The problem with the Entity is that she is on Corellia. So for her to be Kreia, Bioware would have to ignore canon, or made her into another sort of being. (bc there is no mention of any object she is anchored to, and it seems she can move freely around the galaxy, except for Baras's spell)

What is even more important, if you want to meet someone you need to know where to look. Kreia admits, she has no idea where to go to find Revan but she says that Revan went after True Sith(she even encourages the Exile to go and search for him). It is logical to assume that she is not lying at Trayus Core. After Exile beat her, it was a moment of truth for both of them.
What if when Darth Traya died, her Spirit anchored to the Exile? There is nothing i have found that states that a malevolent spirit cannot anchor to the living but logically it would be harder. Except that the Exile and Kreia formed a "force bond" which could have allowed Kreia to stay with the Exile.

Note i have not finished the SW story so anything i say on the Entity in ToR will most likely be wrong but my idea is valid.
IF the Exile was an anchor for Kreia and when Scourge killed Meetra. Kreia had a new location to anchor to. The Emperors palace. Then Baras comes along and does some Sith Sorceror/Alchemy and binds her to an object (I assume since she is summoned as i said not finished the SW story but now i want to).

"At some point between Revan's fall to the dark side and encountering Surik, the one thing that fueled Traya's hatred and connection to the dark side the most was ironically the Force itself. She strongly believed in the will of the Force, viewing it as a conscious entity that controlled the destiny of all living beings. Thus, she came to believe that the Force was a cruel deity and actually sought to destroy it. The fact that Surik was virtually the exact opposite of Revan is what drew Traya to Surik in the first place. Whereas Revan was "the heart of the Force" in Traya's eyes, she viewed Surik as "the death of the Force." At the end of her life, however, Traya seemed to be somewhat reconciled with the Force as she became one with it."

Straight from Wookiepedia even though sometimes you have to take it with a grain of salt.

The last line of the WP quote is interesting but i think that is the portion you can take with a good helping of salt.

As for serving/loving the Emperor he would be a means to the end of the force. Though personally i would prefer severing everyone's connection to it would be a more practical solution plus a lot less messy.
"God was preparing to destroy the world, but than He saw that Blizzard announced Mists of Pandera, and figured that was more then enough." Kaskava
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GreenVlad
02.14.2012 , 11:19 AM | #17
People seem to forget the very fact that the entity was, at some point it seems, a lover to the emperor denies this opinion of she being Kreia and that Darth who helps you, forgot his name, said she was as old as the Force is another point of interest.

Besides if wanna compare the objectives that Kreia, Nihilus and the Emperor are similar is just bonkers...

Kreia wanted the death of the Force that meant and none would ever be able to use it again, Nihilus was as someone said drowned in his own power so I would say he just didnt care, the Emperor however wanted the death of ever living being in the galaxy to fuel hiw own power becoming the ultimate Force-user as the Knight said "An Emperor of Nothing"

To me biggest mystery is what would the Emperor do after all that, but Kreia´s objective was clear and I highly doubt that in anyway that she might be the Entity even if anything about her fits.

Deviss's Avatar


Deviss
02.14.2012 , 06:07 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenVlad View Post
To me biggest mystery is what would the Emperor do after all that
"His" galaxy is not the only galaxy out there you know. After wiping out entire population of both Republic and the Empire he could create new galaxy from the ashes and bring back to life his loyal, fanatically devoted servants that died for him (play JK story for more info about this). Or simply maybe create new life? We don't know what power he would have, codex in the game only hits on this, but it would be more than considerable for sure. Another option is that he could travel further into other galaxies (for example the galaxy from which the Yuuzhan Vong came and invaded the New Republic). It would be actually interesting to see what would happen if the god-like Vitiate that consumed trillions of lives confronted the entire Yuuzhan Vong race that is immune to the impact of force (nor can be sensed through the force).
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Ranadiel_Marius
02.14.2012 , 09:07 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenVlad View Post
To me biggest mystery is what would the Emperor do after all that, but Kreia´s objective was clear and I highly doubt that in anyway that she might be the Entity even if anything about her fits.
He says exactly what he'll do in at least one of the dialogue paths during the confrontation with him.

Spoiler

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Deviss
02.15.2012 , 03:16 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ranadiel_Marius View Post
He says exactly what he'll do in at least one of the dialogue paths during the confrontation with him.

Spoiler
Nice, when does he say that? o_O During chapter 2 or 3 confrontation?
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