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Groups LFM only ask for ranged


Brianmcgrr's Avatar


Brianmcgrr
02.04.2012 , 12:05 PM | #1
I've noticed a lot when people are LFM in flashpoints that they're asking for ranged people only. Which is kinda disturbing seeing as its becoming apparent that being melee really has no benefit at all accept for epic storylines and maybe some pvp.

Whats the deal? Are melee really all the useless in flashpoints?

Manv's Avatar


Manv
02.04.2012 , 12:11 PM | #2
Yes. Having melee makes some encounters harder and most of the time is a nightmare for the healer. The only reason to ever bring melee dps is for interrupts, and even that can be handled by tank+ranged (other than BH/Trooper at least).

It's even worse in Ops, with bosses having aoe damage which only hits melee, Bonetrasher roflstomping them by random target switching..

In this game, there is no "bring the player not a class". It's "bring ranged not melee if at all possible". Sad.

GaryReasons's Avatar


GaryReasons
02.04.2012 , 12:12 PM | #3
If I come across a group that won't take me because I'm a marauder who easily outgears the entire pug, I take it as a sign that it's not a group I would want to be in anyway.

HMs are not worth the trouble of grabbing specific roles classes. Tank, heals, 2 dps. You can clear any HM with competent players regardless of AC.
Always act with intent and intensity.
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
02.04.2012 , 12:19 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by GaryReasons View Post
If I come across a group that won't take me because I'm a marauder who easily outgears the entire pug, I take it as a sign that it's not a group I would want to be in anyway.

HMs are not worth the trouble of grabbing specific roles classes. Tank, heals, 2 dps. You can clear any HM with competent players regardless of AC.
While I agree with everything you said, the bolded can become a problem. If I'm doing a true PUG -- so I do not know the people coming into the group -- I will favour either 2 ranged or 1 ranged and 1 melee. Is this because I feel the 2 melee combination will not work? No, of course not. I've seen it work multiple times. In true PUGs, however, you really don't know how competent these players are. If I'm dealing with less competent players, I'd much rather have the safety net that at least 1 ranged player provides.

That's the issue with our current content in either FPs or OPs. Are ranged favoured? Yes. Can melee overcome the difficulties presented? Yes. Can the vast majority of melee overcome it? No. There just aren't enough competent or good players out there. Sadly, most PUGs are bad and this creates the problem.

GaryReasons's Avatar


GaryReasons
02.04.2012 , 12:19 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Manv View Post
Yes. Having melee makes some encounters harder and most of the time is a nightmare for the healer. The only reason to ever bring melee dps is for interrupts, and even that can be handled by tank+ranged (other than BH/Trooper at least).

It's even worse in Ops, with bosses having aoe damage which only hits melee, Bonetrasher roflstomping them by random target switching..

In this game, there is no "bring the player not a class". It's "bring ranged not melee if at all possible". Sad.
Not at all true. Bonethrasher has never "roflstomped me by random target switching", a decent player in a half decent group manages threat, uses CDs and medpacs etc, and survives. Any boss AoE in this game is easily avoidable for melee players. My 16m NM op currently brings two marauders (we are 5/5 EV, 3/5 KP in our first week of NM raiding).

If you bring a melee who thinks that it's ok to simply tunnel vision the boss and pays no attention to the fight, that will bring the raid down. It's easier to get around that by bringing more ranged, but to suggest the mere presence of melee players is already hurting the raid is presumptuous.
Always act with intent and intensity.
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GaryReasons's Avatar


GaryReasons
02.04.2012 , 12:21 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
That's the issue with our current content in either FPs or OPs. Are ranged favoured? Yes. Can melee overcome the difficulties presented? Yes. Can the vast majority of melee overcome it? No. There just aren't enough competent or good players out there. Sadly, most PUGs are bad and this creates the problem.
I think this is the core of the issue; I strongly agree. Melee are perfectly viable for all encounters, the issue is that most players who rolled melee found it to be more challenging than a faceroll and rerolled sorc/merc or whatever. I personally like the challenge of it and enjoy my marauder a great deal. There are, I readily admit, a LOT of melee players who tend to stand in the fire.
Always act with intent and intensity.
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Scrubtastic
02.04.2012 , 12:26 PM | #7
Did BT HM with 3 assassin scrubs the other day. Tank had 13k hp and the other two had 15k. I'm decked out in T2-3 gear with 17k hp. I don't even think the tank was spec to tank. We wiped 3 times on the way to the first boss and once on the first boss before I ditched the group.

Tank died in 3 hits so I had to spam heal him with my big heals every fight. Other 2 useless assassins would try to pick up the adds that were attacking me and dies in 2-3 hits as well. I tanked that **** for longer than all of them but in the end it was impossible to keep everyone alive.

Not really related about the topic but just wanted to say how bad the casuals are in this game and thanks to BW for bringing in so many.

Guiken's Avatar


Guiken
02.04.2012 , 12:28 PM | #8
You manage thread on bone thrasher? do tell...
In your defensive fervor however I think you're missing the point. Are melee viable? Sure. Do they bring more dps to the table to warrant the increased risk, healing and player competence level to play them? Nope. DPS is on par, so why would I ever want a dps assassin instead of a bounty hunter if we otherwise have interrupts covered?

Bone thrasher is acually a good example, you get a competent player, keeping behind him, avoid attacks. He'll still definitely get hit by the jump, and will occasionally get hit with swipes while BEHIND bonethrasher simply because of latency/net code issues. You add in multiple melees having this issue and it becomes a huge problem for the healers who could otherwise be topping people off and contributing some dps.

Let's face it, there are some fights that are just unmelee friend and for no damn good reason other than shoddy design. Yes they can still be done, but it's simply easier to bring the ranged to them which is why they are favored. If you have to move out and stop dpsing in multiple fights, BW needs to recognize that and give those melee some reason for that loss of dps (IE increased dps via a melee only buff, or a fight mechanic the melee need to deal with, or some mechanic that casuse the ranged players to deal wtih the same types of issues).

Equality in the expected level of player skill is what's missing. And that will remain true for now no matter how Pro you are at your given melee class.

GaryReasons's Avatar


GaryReasons
02.04.2012 , 12:44 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Guiken View Post
You manage thread on bone thrasher? do tell...
In your defensive fervor however I think you're missing the point. Are melee viable? Sure. Do they bring more dps to the table to warrant the increased risk, healing and player competence level to play them? Nope. DPS is on par, so why would I ever want a dps assassin instead of a bounty hunter if we otherwise have interrupts covered?

Bone thrasher is acually a good example, you get a competent player, keeping behind him, avoid attacks. He'll still definitely get hit by the jump, and will occasionally get hit with swipes while BEHIND bonethrasher simply because of latency/net code issues. You add in multiple melees having this issue and it becomes a huge problem for the healers who could otherwise be topping people off and contributing some dps.

Let's face it, there are some fights that are just unmelee friend and for no damn good reason other than shoddy design. Yes they can still be done, but it's simply easier to bring the ranged to them which is why they are favored. If you have to move out and stop dpsing in multiple fights, BW needs to recognize that and give those melee some reason for that loss of dps (IE increased dps via a melee only buff, or a fight mechanic the melee need to deal with, or some mechanic that casuse the ranged players to deal wtih the same types of issues).

Equality in the expected level of player skill is what's missing. And that will remain true for now no matter how Pro you are at your given melee class.
When I say manage threat I mean I use force camo when he comes to whack me (it drops threat but also reduces my damage taken to zero, I call it threat reduction out of habit).

I find I can outperform most of the dps in my raid. It's hard to really go on anything without a combat log, other than that on council in EV I am typically the first or second person done with my mob, and on most other fights, I'm usually the one who has to deal with threat issues most often. Crude barometers, but I'll take what I can get.

Regardless, we are talking about ops right now, and the OP was talking about HM FPs. My original point was that for a HM FP, you can bring whatever you want as long as the roles are filled, and you'll be fine. Bad players can show up as any class, any role; it's part of the game.
Always act with intent and intensity.
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Scrubtastic's Avatar


Scrubtastic
02.04.2012 , 12:51 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by GaryReasons View Post
When I say manage threat I mean I use force camo when he comes to whack me (it drops threat but also reduces my damage taken to zero, I call it threat reduction out of habit).

I find I can outperform most of the dps in my raid. It's hard to really go on anything without a combat log, other than that on council in EV I am typically the first or second person done with my mob, and on most other fights, I'm usually the one who has to deal with threat issues most often. Crude barometers, but I'll take what I can get.

Regardless, we are talking about ops right now, and the OP was talking about HM FPs. My original point was that for a HM FP, you can bring whatever you want as long as the roles are filled, and you'll be fine. Bad players can show up as any class, any role; it's part of the game.
Your range dps suck if you are getting top dps. Being first to kill your mob in council doesn't mean you do the most dps lol. If by your logic, as a healer, I beat some of our new recruits who play a dps class during council, does that mean I do moar dps than them?

And if you have to deal with threat issues in most fight than your tanks are bad. BW brought too many scrubs to this game. I see players in WZ with less hp and dps than my companion.