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Why/How Jedi Knight Melee Sucks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why/How Jedi Knight Melee Sucks

urborror's Avatar


urborror
02.02.2012 , 10:14 PM | #1
My first character was a Jedi Sentinel--I abandoned her out of frustration when Valis murdered me 20 times in a row (which was harder than any single-player RPG I've played in 10 years, but that was with no knowledge of MMOs, and big blunders like not gearing properly or buying the right skills.)

Recently came back after leveling various alts to different levels, learning the game and beat Valis. Knowing this game, sure I could use Sentinel as a powerful DPS. I ran some heroics and missions and a flashpoint, tried to master my abilities--I initially thought the class was viable, then...I think I've abandoned the character again.

1) The horrible "Crysis" framerate issue on wimpy systems is inexorably tied up with Jedi Knights--on PvP or heroics, doing melee, the slideshow effect is twice as bad, totally crippling any versatile gameplay. I mention this first because nobody else seems to mention it together (i.e., melee framerate just totally eliminates battlefield awareness and...the tactical game, i.e., framerate)--in PvP (where framerates are the worst in the recent history of AAA games) almost everybody has some framerate issues, even on the best systems, and Jedi Knight/melee classes are the twitchiest of all the classes/with the worst framerates.

2) Melee DPS doesn't make up for distances. I've leveled a sniper pretty high, and it's a comparative joke (I've also annihilated heroics with twin sniper DPS's where melee DPS's failed--the worthlessness of the class is evident in group play, oftentimes.) "Force Leap" is an integral aspect of focus-building and it's either on cooldown/unable to be used unless you RUN BACKWARDS FOR NO REASON. I hit "zealous leap" and maybe get a shot in (about comparable to "snipe" on my sniper, which I can fire again and again and again) and then the target's gone, and I'm spamming the focus-building normal attack, which feels like the weakest normal attack in the game. I feel like I'm in a perpetual state of "focus building," which is the equivalent of "running out of mana" with the other classes.

With the other classes, panicked spamming of the main attack only happens after you've delivered devastating DPS, which you choose to do as a trade-off for conserving mana/ammo, to cripple the enemy. With Jedi Knight, you start off there.

3)Focus is a terrible system. Sith Sorcerer and Sage barely ever run out of mana except on boss fights, but every jedi knight fight pretends your major attacks are nuclear bombs to build up to--when they're barely preferable to the big attacks every other class has ready-to-go, to start with.

Maybe with framerate/skill issues cleared up, the class works better, but I sure can't use it for group play.

Venator-Falco's Avatar


Venator-Falco
02.02.2012 , 10:44 PM | #2
First up…
And I always hesitate to say things like this, but your post is all but un-intelligible. You seem to start one sentence get half way through then finish up with something totally unrelated.
Second.
There are many many threads on these forums about how to take out Valis, and it is pretty straight forward once you think about how to address the fight with your full skill set instead of just making the same mistakes time and again
So… Use the search function, look it up and then re-think your approach to the fight.
Then you will realise that at level 24 there is nothing wrong with Knight DPS.
Get up to a boss that does point blank AOE in an operation or heroic then come back to us and tell us what you think (BTW I accept the limitations of this for the incredibly fun play a Sentinel offers)
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spriing's Avatar


spriing
02.02.2012 , 11:13 PM | #3
I wish people would realize that fights like the Valis fight are more about survival instead of dps. This means you will spend most of the time interrupting key attacks and using your defensive cool-downs. As well as utilizing your med kits and stems.
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flamezfan's Avatar


flamezfan
02.02.2012 , 11:16 PM | #4
The OP actually makes sense if you've played and leveled up classes. I've leveled up a trooper and bounty hunter and to be honest, those feel a lot more enjoyable to play. (One shouldn't have to level to 50 to have moments where they enjoy the game.)

Cinemayor's Avatar


Cinemayor
02.02.2012 , 11:34 PM | #5
I'll address your points:

1. Can't speak for your system, but personally I have very few performance issues - almost none at all since the last patch and I'm certainly not playing on a beastly system. I'm currently running near max settings. All I can suggest is turn everything to minimum and then crank things up until you hit an acceptable performance/prettiness ratio.

2. Once you know how the various fights work, I find that being melee doesn't hamper me as much as you'd expect if you read the forums a lot. Some bosses require a more mobile approach shall we say, but I think I more than make up for that with the chunky flying numbers I generate when in contact.

3. Sounds like you're Focus specced. Focus does suffer from focus generation (OH THE IRONY). In my experience, Focus is an excellent pvp spec but doesn't really work for raiding, especially when compared to the insane flaming ****-train that is Watchman. If anything, I often have trouble burning focus faster than I can make it.

Yes, there is some lead time before we start really putting the hurt out (especially for Wacthmen) but it's not THAT long and when we do hit peak - we stay there. Once I get going that's it - no running out of mana/ammo, no generating too much heat - it's just all nukes all the time. Get Centring up fast and you can pop Zen a lot - adding even more to the damage. Time your adrenals/relics and you can make your damage even more impressive.

Sentinels can be a struggle while levelling and they are more gear dependent than other classes but once you get past the hump a well played Sent really starts to shine.

I've been levelling a few other classes recently (Merc & Assassin in particular) and tbh, I wouldn't trade my Sent in for anything else. I love it.

Dawginole's Avatar


Dawginole
02.03.2012 , 02:22 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by spriing View Post
I wish people would realize that fights like the Valis fight are more about survival instead of dps. This means you will spend most of the time interrupting key attacks and using your defensive cool-downs. As well as utilizing your med kits and stems.
This would make sense until I hit Harrowers today and they don't use anything you can interrupt to stay alive.
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Metaspark's Avatar


Metaspark
02.03.2012 , 02:47 AM | #7
I'm not sure what you're talking about framerate issues, I have an Asus G74 laptop and I run the game at 55-60 fps on max settings

Jedimexi's Avatar


Jedimexi
02.03.2012 , 06:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by flamezfan View Post
The OP actually makes sense if you've played and leveled up classes. I've leveled up a trooper and bounty hunter and to be honest, those feel a lot more enjoyable to play. (One shouldn't have to level to 50 to have moments where they enjoy the game.)
Which class to enjoy is all in the eye of the beholder.

I think what you mean is "easier to play". Too many posts in these forums revolve around X-class is screwed, Y class is OP when a lot of the time it is a PEBCAK issue that clouds the judgement. "Oh I can't play this class therefore they must be broken." Not sayign there aren't some issues but many are just people going about playing the class wrong in the first place - go no further than people playing Sith Assassins expecting to be a melee toe-to-toe fighter and wonder why the get steamrolled.
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Faolon's Avatar


Faolon
02.03.2012 , 07:29 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by flamezfan View Post
The OP actually makes sense if you've played and leveled up classes. I've leveled up a trooper and bounty hunter and to be honest, those feel a lot more enjoyable to play. (One shouldn't have to level to 50 to have moments where they enjoy the game.)
I've actually found the opposite, myself.


I thoroughly enjoy playing my Guardian. So much so that my original plan to make one alt of everything has pretty much been scrapped for now.
I enjoyed myself all the way up to 50 and am enjoying myself at 50.


One man's trash is another man's treasure. If you do not enjoy this class, then you should not be forcing yourself to play it. Go play your BH or Trooper. You'll be a happier person.



Honestly, everyone that complains about Knights being terrible just makes me feel like some sort of super amazing player.
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WaywardOne's Avatar


WaywardOne
02.03.2012 , 07:33 AM | #10
I had framerate issues with a 2 or 3 year old Nvidia 9600 GT until I spent ~$300 to upgrade it. But even though the framerate issues went away, the card overheats and the fan on it spins very loudly unless I set the resolution way below the default (I'm on something like 1300 x 700 where my windows default is 2560 by 1600;>).

<< 3)Focus is a terrible system. Sith Sorcerer and Sage barely ever run out of mana except on boss fights, but every jedi knight fight pretends your major attacks are nuclear bombs to build up to--when they're barely preferable to the big attacks every other class has ready-to-go, to start with. >>

Agreed 100%. They copied Warriors in Wow (why the hell is our main stat "STRENGTH" btw????) and then made it worse by limiting the things that build rage. Wow devs admitted long ago that the rage system was a mistake and unbalanceable. Cox also had a rage-based character (Brute) that was the weakest tank in that game. I haven't seen a fun implementation of the mechanic yet. Warriors were not a successful class, imo - Wow succeeded in spite of that weakness.