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Anyone think that the EU has lost its way?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Anyone think that the EU has lost its way?

Seductivpancakes's Avatar


Seductivpancakes
02.03.2012 , 01:27 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
And, as I've said, I think the original trilogy is the worst part of Star Wars. It laid the ground work for some awesome games (Kotor 1 and 2) and many awesome EU books, but the original trilogy is derivative and boring.

Good guy fights bad guy, good guy has set back, good guy eventually wins and proves good triumphs over evil. *gag*

Do we really need ANOTHER universe that tells a story that is, at this point, THOUSANDS of years old?

And even Tim Burton's batman was SIGNIFICANTLY darker than the source material at the time. Remember how Batman began?

He went from a guy in a bat suit who was ridiculous to one of the deepest and most beloved comic book characters in the world and much of that is because it kept getting darker with every reboot.

Star Wars is excellent source material that, so far, has not been used to make anything truly awesome.

I want to see a Star Wars film where I walk out of it and can't stop thinking about it.

I want a Star Wars film that affects me as deeply as A Serbian Film did.

I want something for a 28 year old.
Star wars is not for you then. Star wars is all about the good guy winning at the end. Even if it takes several centuries. Even KOTOR 1 and 2 is about the good guy winning. Sure you can choose to be dark sided, but the canon lore is the good guys win.

I find all 3 original movies to be dark an edgy enough.

I haven't read all the EU novels, even the classics and favorites like the Thrawn Trilogy and the Xwing series.

I do read the comics extensively. I like most of it and some of them are a hit and a miss.

I am however reading the NJO series and I'm liking the aspect of total defeat at the door step.

priest's Avatar


priest
02.03.2012 , 01:45 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I love the Expanded Universe novels. Most are well written and keep me coming back to re-read them. Crystal Star is an exception. I thought that was a poor book. Things really picked up with the New Jedi Order series. It was long but it was great. I never saw the death of Chewie coming. Anakin's death made me sad. Tahiri's struggles with both her time as a Vong prisoner and then Anakin's death kept one wondering if she would be alright or snap and go insane.

Mara's death in the Legacy series was a total shocker. But that was the point. I love the fact that the EU has taken a darker turn. I hated that Mara Jade was killed and not Leia but it had the desired effect. And the Fate series is even better. Will Luke die fighting Abeloth? What happens between Vestara and Ben? Does he find out she gave up on turning Jedi? Do they fall in love? What happens to the Lost Tribe? I can barely contain my excitement for final book to be released.

In short this all comes down to personal opinion. For me the EU has been awesome. Yes there have been some sub-par books, but that has to be expected. The authors do a great job and I look forward to future stories.

I would also like to mention that in addition to Crystal Star the Death Troopers novel was bad. It was an even worse content addition to the Star Wars Galaxies MMO. What was LA thinking with that one?
don't get me wrong, I like edgy unpredictable seat of the pants stories; but Star Wars to me has always been about popcorn. Right now the EU is almost fatalistic and hopeless. I think a reset is needed.
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PeepsMcJuggs's Avatar


PeepsMcJuggs
02.03.2012 , 01:54 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by priest View Post
don't get me wrong, I like edgy unpredictable seat of the pants stories; but Star Wars to me has always been about popcorn. Right now the EU is almost fatalistic and hopeless. I think a reset is needed.
Word. I don't care that the New Republic stories were predictable. They were entertaining. I like it when the good guy wins, and I'm tired of this hollow-victory-cuz-everyone-dies crap.
"Making the internet a happier place, one infraction at a time."

Yfelsung's Avatar


Yfelsung
02.03.2012 , 01:58 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Seductivpancakes View Post
Star wars is not for you then. Star wars is all about the good guy winning at the end. Even if it takes several centuries. Even KOTOR 1 and 2 is about the good guy winning. Sure you can choose to be dark sided, but the canon lore is the good guys win.

I find all 3 original movies to be dark an edgy enough.

I haven't read all the EU novels, even the classics and favorites like the Thrawn Trilogy and the Xwing series.

I do read the comics extensively. I like most of it and some of them are a hit and a miss.

I am however reading the NJO series and I'm liking the aspect of total defeat at the door step.
That's the thing though, Kotor and TOR have given me the ability to make MY Star Wars.

It's Star Wars, but it's my twisted vision of it.

I don't have to care about what Lucas dictates as canon, I don't have to follow it.

I have an image of Star Wars in my head. I believe if I could put this image into film, it would be accepted and liked. Maybe not by hardcore SW canon fans, but by others like me and by people who probably didn't like sci-fi or SW that much to begin with.

To me, canonical Star Wars is like a Raffi record. It's for kids, and as a kid I loved SW and I loved Raffi.

That love of Raffi and SW turned me into a life long music and sci-fi fan, but I'm 28, I don't listen to Raffi, I listen to Anaal Nathrakh and Emperor, but would I love to hear Raffi try to put out a black metal album? Definitely.

Would I love to see Star Wars turned into something darker and more brutal? **** yes I would.

Would I love to see a do-over and Anakin's fall from grace? **** yes. Lucas made his fall from grace a little too "My Chemical Romance", I'd prefer to see it done a little more "Circle of Dead Children".

Yes, I'm a music nerd and use music for a lot of analogies.
MHORDSUNG SOULGRINDER, LEGATUS OF PHOBOS LEGION

At the end of days the dragon stands tall and with limitless rage it illuminates all.

Midasear's Avatar


Midasear
02.03.2012 , 02:31 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by PeepsMcJuggs View Post
I like it when the good guy wins, and I'm tired of this hollow-victory-cuz-everyone-dies crap.
This.

The great irony is that the franchise probably owed a large measure of its popularity to Lucas' willingness to serve up an unambiguously heroic characters and a happy ending, something that action movies just were not doing by the mid 70s.

I was there as a kid, and I have to say that action/adventure films ~1975 were pretty bleak. We got vengeful anti-heroes, dead & crippled protagonists, and endings that showed the corrupt business executives and idiot scientists had learned nothing from all the misadventures we had just witnessed. They were going to go on polluting the ocean, building firetrap skyscrapers or conducting diabolical experiments, at least until a sequel could be filmed. Credits would roll after "The END??????" splayed across the screen in a wavy, bloodstained font, accompanied by bittersweet or ominous music. Happy endings were for corny old Errol Flynn movies.

The post-Thrawn EU appears to have largely fallen into the same sort of trap.

Grondoth's Avatar


Grondoth
02.03.2012 , 02:34 PM | #46
I'm not that big of a star wars fan. I've never read any of the books or anything, although I've watched the movies and played most of the games. But even to my perspective, the EU's gone dangerously off the rails. I've had fun telling people true things that happen in the EU and false things that happen in the EU and they have no idea which is which. A gigantic lightsaber that destroys planets? A race of dinosaur people? A race of lemurs? A ship that runs through stars? Light Sided force lightning? I can make up almost anything with that as my guide and it could possibly exist in star wars.

A large part of the EU can just be described as stupid, let alone the problems with narrative and tone. Star wars is redemption and hope, the triumph of good on a galactic scale. Things can be dark and stuff can look bad, but it's a classic tale of good vs. evil, and it's one where good wins. Trying to clumsily change that just sends the whole universe out of whack. To take a nerdy example, it'd be like if there were unofficial official novels written about after the fall of Sauron that had the orcs come back and Sauron still living somehow. And the descendants of Sam end up turning into murderers. You can't do that, you screw up the universe by screwing up the tone of it.

I think what needs to happen over there is not just a clean slate, but some real honest creative control. They need to figure out what the tone of their universe is gonna be and how things are supposed to play out. This whole N, C, S, G business isn't control, it's an excuse for loose management of their brand. When you've got sliding scales of what counts in your universe, you don't have a universe.

Also making it dark and edgy like your black metal is literally the worst idea I've ever heard guy. Stop it, you have terrible ideas and worse taste.
AHM OLD

priest's Avatar


priest
02.03.2012 , 02:40 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
That's the thing though, Kotor and TOR have given me the ability to make MY Star Wars.

It's Star Wars, but it's my twisted vision of it.

I don't have to care about what Lucas dictates as canon, I don't have to follow it.

I have an image of Star Wars in my head. I believe if I could put this image into film, it would be accepted and liked. Maybe not by hardcore SW canon fans, but by others like me and by people who probably didn't like sci-fi or SW that much to begin with.

To me, canonical Star Wars is like a Raffi record. It's for kids, and as a kid I loved SW and I loved Raffi.

That love of Raffi and SW turned me into a life long music and sci-fi fan, but I'm 28, I don't listen to Raffi, I listen to Anaal Nathrakh and Emperor, but would I love to hear Raffi try to put out a black metal album? Definitely.

Would I love to see Star Wars turned into something darker and more brutal? **** yes I would.

Would I love to see a do-over and Anakin's fall from grace? **** yes. Lucas made his fall from grace a little too "My Chemical Romance", I'd prefer to see it done a little more "Circle of Dead Children".

Yes, I'm a music nerd and use music for a lot of analogies.
I'm curious, and don't take this the wrong way...but what does 28 have to do with it? Being older doesnt mean that darker, more brutal stories are the only methods of entertainment...or that you can't enjoy fluff or 'feel good' stuff just because you've 'graduated to the next level.' I am 30, does that mean that the only movies I can like are Eli Roth flicks like Hostel...or whoever made the Human Centepede?

I, too, am a music buff. In fact, I have a degree in it. I absolutely love Beethoven's 3rd, 5th, and 7th symphonies. I also like Ravel's Balero; I also like Etta James (RIP ) Jason Mraz, and Marilyn Manson. Trent Renzor is an excellent composor, Incubus is a great band and they actually know what they're doing when it comes to formal music structure and Coldplay has excellent melodic lines...if you can just get past the bad angsty teen poetry garbage that are their lyrics.

But I also like Cake. Cake is my popcorn band. It's funky, and it doesn't take itself too seriously. In movies, I like Boondock Saints; and I like Toy Story 3.

TL;DR- being 28 doesn't mean you can't enjoy simplicity...thinking that it does shows immaturity.
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priest's Avatar


priest
02.03.2012 , 02:45 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Grondoth View Post
I'm not that big of a star wars fan. I've never read any of the books or anything, although I've watched the movies and played most of the games. But even to my perspective, the EU's gone dangerously off the rails. I've had fun telling people true things that happen in the EU and false things that happen in the EU and they have no idea which is which. A gigantic lightsaber that destroys planets? A race of dinosaur people? A race of lemurs? A ship that runs through stars? Light Sided force lightning? I can make up almost anything with that as my guide and it could possibly exist in star wars.
every damn one of those is in the EU.
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Grondoth's Avatar


Grondoth
02.03.2012 , 03:04 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by priest View Post
every damn one of those is in the EU.
EXACTLY. How can anything else you say sound too silly for the EU?
AHM OLD

smartalectwo's Avatar


smartalectwo
02.03.2012 , 03:12 PM | #50
I don't get enough opportunities to link these.

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