Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Anyone think that the EU has lost its way?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Anyone think that the EU has lost its way?

LystAP's Avatar


LystAP
02.03.2012 , 11:53 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by PeepsMcJuggs View Post
Yeah, that's the other thing that pissed me off: the end of the New Republic. It's like they're trying to invalidate the whole friggin' point of the classic trilogy's triumph over the Empire.
To tell you the truth, I saw that coming along time ago. Heh.

Hell, you can even see it in SWTOR; half the Senators would make great Sith Lords if they had force powers, and a democracy is relatively easy to pick apart if you can control or manipulate certain interest groups.

It wasn't the Republic that triumphed over the Empire, it was the Rebel Alliance. It started going downhill once they turned themselves into the New Republic, and started "electing" their leaders. In whole parts of the EU, the enemy wasn't just the Empire, an alien menace, or outlaws, but the Senate itself. There is a reason an intelligent being like Thrawn remained loyal to the ideals of the Empire.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
02.03.2012 , 11:55 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by priest View Post
I remember in buying my first Star Wars Book in 1993- Heir to the Empire. I bought it in a used bookstore on a rainy day when I had nothing better to do. I had liked the movies; my parents had recorded them during a free week of HBO, and I had played the videos until you had to mess with the tracking to get the tape to feed without white static at the bottom of the screen. Even our copy of Return of the Jedi wasn't complete...it didn't start until Threepio and Artoo were standing outsid of Jabba's Palace. I loved these stories, so I thought that I'd give these books a chance.

I was immediately hooked. I bought the rest of the trilogy two days later. These books opened a universe of endless possibilities, wonder, and excitement. I bought each one as they hit shelves. Some were fantastic- I, Jedi the X-wing Series, Hand of Thrawn, The Courtship of Princess Leia; some were good at the time, but have mellowed as time has gone on, Young Jedi Knights, Darksaber. Some were downright wierd, The Crystal Star. But they all had one thing in common.

They were safe with happy endings. At the end of the day Good fights evil and conquers. Our heroes win. I could put up with the horrible books like the Black Fleet Crysis, and the not so bad but lukewarm Corellia Trilogy because in the end I knew what to expect of the characters.

Then came the New Jedi Order. I should have know what to expect when Chewbacca died. All bets were off, and no one was safe, nor was I guranteed a happy ending. The literature of my teenage years had been thrust into the uncertainty of more realistic characters with more realistic fatalistic ends. Still I kept reading.

I wish I could forget Dark Nest...I hated every bit of it.

Anakin- dead. Mara- dead. Jacen, darkside...then dead. The Solos lose two of their three children and Han his best Friend; Luke his wife, Ben his mother, and While I'm still in the middle of Fate of the Jedi...I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Here's the thing: It's all so incredibly dark. It's been hopeless ever since NJO, and I don't think that I entirely like this direction. Don't get me wrong...I like intrigue, uncertainty, in the trenches literature...but I never thought that Star Wars would go there. Now it's been more than a decade of loss, and a lasting depression over the entire GFFA. It's all turned into one, big, existential nightmare. I miss the days of Han, Chewie, Luke and the Princess running across the galaxy, against all odds but me (the reader) knowing that in the end...it would all be alright.

Is this antebellum mentality wrong?
It depends. In reality look at the prequels. 99% of the characters you learn about die. Vader was left in pieces and on fire by Obi Wan Kenobi. Anakin killed younglings and many Jedi for instance.

jannickj's Avatar


jannickj
02.03.2012 , 12:01 PM | #33
i know many people love thrawn... i just dont like the idea of continueing beyond ROTJ. to me it all ends there.

but EU happening before TPM. now that i LOVE. especially everything in the time around the old republic. thought about buying some of the books. are they any good? or should i stay away from them if i think the post-ROTJ destroys star wars?

PeepsMcJuggs's Avatar


PeepsMcJuggs
02.03.2012 , 12:27 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
Becoming edgier isn't what made Stargate Universe and Enterprise bad, it was boring writing and stories.

Need we bring up The Dark Knight for an example of going darker and becoming FAR SUPERIOR. That's a movie that is, at it's heart, a comic book movie that film classes are already using in analysis projects because of how deep the actual societal commentary runs through the movie.

Or Battlestar Galactica.

Or Song of Ice and Fire (not a remake, but it's "fantasy for adults" with themes and content that I, as a 28 year old, find interesting. Dragonglance and LotR were awesome when I was 13, but at 28 I doubt I could make it through LotR without getting bored.)

I'm not asking for edgy.

I'm asking for brutality.
The Dark Knight was no darker or edgier than Tim Burton's version, just different. Battlestar Galactica was as dark as 70s television would allow, so that's hardly a valid comparison. And Ice and Fire isn't a reboot.

And making it more brutal and violent completely misses the point of what the original saga was about. Star Wars was about iconic heroes and dastardly villains in a classic fight between good and evil, not about how creatively you can kill your opponent with The Force. You want killer finishing moves, go play a video game.
"Making the internet a happier place, one infraction at a time."

Yfelsung's Avatar


Yfelsung
02.03.2012 , 12:34 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by PeepsMcJuggs View Post
The Dark Knight was no darker or edgier than Tim Burton's version, just different. Battlestar Galactica was as dark as 70s television would allow, so that's hardly a valid comparison. And Ice and Fire isn't a reboot.

And making it more brutal and violent completely misses the point of what the original saga was about. Star Wars was about iconic heroes and dastardly villains in a classic fight between good and evil, not about how creatively you can kill your opponent with The Force. You want killer finishing moves, go play a video game.
And, as I've said, I think the original trilogy is the worst part of Star Wars. It laid the ground work for some awesome games (Kotor 1 and 2) and many awesome EU books, but the original trilogy is derivative and boring.

Good guy fights bad guy, good guy has set back, good guy eventually wins and proves good triumphs over evil. *gag*

Do we really need ANOTHER universe that tells a story that is, at this point, THOUSANDS of years old?

And even Tim Burton's batman was SIGNIFICANTLY darker than the source material at the time. Remember how Batman began?

He went from a guy in a bat suit who was ridiculous to one of the deepest and most beloved comic book characters in the world and much of that is because it kept getting darker with every reboot.

Star Wars is excellent source material that, so far, has not been used to make anything truly awesome.

I want to see a Star Wars film where I walk out of it and can't stop thinking about it.

I want a Star Wars film that affects me as deeply as A Serbian Film did.

I want something for a 28 year old.
MHORDSUNG SOULGRINDER, LEGATUS OF PHOBOS LEGION

At the end of days the dragon stands tall and with limitless rage it illuminates all.

PeepsMcJuggs's Avatar


PeepsMcJuggs
02.03.2012 , 12:38 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
And, as I've said, I think the original trilogy is the worst part of Star Wars. It laid the ground work for some awesome games (Kotor 1 and 2) and many awesome EU books, but the original trilogy is derivative and boring.
I'm sorry, I stopped reading after this. I don't think I can even talk to you anymore. Good day, sir.


I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!
"Making the internet a happier place, one infraction at a time."

jannickj's Avatar


jannickj
02.03.2012 , 12:40 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Yfelsung View Post
And, as I've said, I think the original trilogy is the worst part of Star Wars. It laid the ground work for some awesome games (Kotor 1 and 2) and many awesome EU books, but the original trilogy is derivative and boring.

Good guy fights bad guy, good guy has set back, good guy eventually wins and proves good triumphs over evil. *gag*

Do we really need ANOTHER universe that tells a story that is, at this point, THOUSANDS of years old?

And even Tim Burton's batman was SIGNIFICANTLY darker than the source material at the time. Remember how Batman began?

He went from a guy in a bat suit who was ridiculous to one of the deepest and most beloved comic book characters in the world and much of that is because it kept getting darker with every reboot.

Star Wars is excellent source material that, so far, has not been used to make anything truly awesome.

I want to see a Star Wars film where I walk out of it and can't stop thinking about it.

I want a Star Wars film that affects me as deeply as A Serbian Film did.

I want something for a 28 year old.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jandjpro.../1/nj-Zo32TIDo
there you go. this is the trailer. dark and "grown-up"

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
02.03.2012 , 01:01 PM | #38
I love the Expanded Universe novels. Most are well written and keep me coming back to re-read them. Crystal Star is an exception. I thought that was a poor book. Things really picked up with the New Jedi Order series. It was long but it was great. I never saw the death of Chewie coming. Anakin's death made me sad. Tahiri's struggles with both her time as a Vong prisoner and then Anakin's death kept one wondering if she would be alright or snap and go insane.

Mara's death in the Legacy series was a total shocker. But that was the point. I love the fact that the EU has taken a darker turn. I hated that Mara Jade was killed and not Leia but it had the desired effect. And the Fate series is even better. Will Luke die fighting Abeloth? What happens between Vestara and Ben? Does he find out she gave up on turning Jedi? Do they fall in love? What happens to the Lost Tribe? I can barely contain my excitement for final book to be released.

In short this all comes down to personal opinion. For me the EU has been awesome. Yes there have been some sub-par books, but that has to be expected. The authors do a great job and I look forward to future stories.

I would also like to mention that in addition to Crystal Star the Death Troopers novel was bad. It was an even worse content addition to the Star Wars Galaxies MMO. What was LA thinking with that one?

PeepsMcJuggs's Avatar


PeepsMcJuggs
02.03.2012 , 01:03 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I would also like to mention that in addition to Crystal Star the Death Troopers novel was bad. It was an even worse content addition to the Star Wars Galaxies MMO. What was LA thinking with that one?
"Hurrr...zombies r kewl."
"Making the internet a happier place, one infraction at a time."

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
02.03.2012 , 01:03 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by priest View Post
I remember in buying my first Star Wars Book in 1993- Heir to the Empire. I bought it in a used bookstore on a rainy day when I had nothing better to do. I had liked the movies; my parents had recorded them during a free week of HBO, and I had played the videos until you had to mess with the tracking to get the tape to feed without white static at the bottom of the screen. Even our copy of Return of the Jedi wasn't complete...it didn't start until Threepio and Artoo were standing outsid of Jabba's Palace. I loved these stories, so I thought that I'd give these books a chance.

I was immediately hooked. I bought the rest of the trilogy two days later. These books opened a universe of endless possibilities, wonder, and excitement. I bought each one as they hit shelves. Some were fantastic- I, Jedi the X-wing Series, Hand of Thrawn, The Courtship of Princess Leia; some were good at the time, but have mellowed as time has gone on, Young Jedi Knights, Darksaber. Some were downright wierd, The Crystal Star. But they all had one thing in common.

They were safe with happy endings. At the end of the day Good fights evil and conquers. Our heroes win. I could put up with the horrible books like the Black Fleet Crysis, and the not so bad but lukewarm Corellia Trilogy because in the end I knew what to expect of the characters.

Then came the New Jedi Order. I should have know what to expect when Chewbacca died. All bets were off, and no one was safe, nor was I guranteed a happy ending. The literature of my teenage years had been thrust into the uncertainty of more realistic characters with more realistic fatalistic ends. Still I kept reading.

I wish I could forget Dark Nest...I hated every bit of it.

Anakin- dead. Mara- dead. Jacen, darkside...then dead. The Solos lose two of their three children and Han his best Friend; Luke his wife, Ben his mother, and While I'm still in the middle of Fate of the Jedi...I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Here's the thing: It's all so incredibly dark. It's been hopeless ever since NJO, and I don't think that I entirely like this direction. Don't get me wrong...I like intrigue, uncertainty, in the trenches literature...but I never thought that Star Wars would go there. Now it's been more than a decade of loss, and a lasting depression over the entire GFFA. It's all turned into one, big, existential nightmare. I miss the days of Han, Chewie, Luke and the Princess running across the galaxy, against all odds but me (the reader) knowing that in the end...it would all be alright.

Is this antebellum mentality wrong?

nope I perfer the EU these days, the narritive is better, as opposed to the new republic era which was disgustlingly predictable