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8/16 man That is all!


yugotoobo's Avatar


yugotoobo
02.02.2012 , 12:46 PM | #1
Just wanted to see what people thought about the idea of getting rid of normal, hard, and nightmare. Instead just have 8 man raids and 16. Like in burning crusade...

The idea would be to make the 16 mans hard I guess equal to nightmare in terms of difficulty. The 8 man stuff could be just as hard. Guilds would really struggle. This in my opinion is a good thing.

Only reason this has been rolling around in my mind is becuase I can remember when killing the first 3 bosses in khara felt like a huge achievement to me. For my guild the first time we cleared the instance it felt like we worked hard for it. The best part was we had 25 mans to look forward to.

Simply put I think the Difficulty of end game Progression is what makes it fun.

schwiz's Avatar


schwiz
02.02.2012 , 12:55 PM | #2
I sorta agree, normal mode is like training wheels you learn the fights and get some decent gear before switching over to nightmare/hard. But at same time, I do enjoy being able to pug an OP and do some endgame stuff.

Talorra's Avatar


Talorra
02.02.2012 , 12:56 PM | #3
So cut endgame content out from everyone but the hardcore?

No.
M'arik <Intrepid> 16-player Progression The Harbinger
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Rotny's Avatar


Rotny
02.02.2012 , 01:07 PM | #4
I dunno if this is the solution and honestly I don't know what the solution is.. but right now I'm extremely disillusioned about swtor because of "endgame".
I think vanilla wow had it right. When you get to 60 you run ubrs etc, then maybe ZG, then maybe MC and if you get that far onward to BWL. That's as far as I got. Naxx was like a legend to me. I had a sense of wonderment at it all that is completely absent here in swtor.

yugotoobo's Avatar


yugotoobo
02.02.2012 , 01:07 PM | #5
Nothing stopping someone who is casual from joining a raid guild. It may only encourage people to get into the game more.

yugotoobo's Avatar


yugotoobo
02.02.2012 , 01:10 PM | #6
I think most of those casual players back in the day became the raiders we see today becuase they looked at it like it was a huge challenge!

Valtrim's Avatar


Valtrim
02.02.2012 , 01:12 PM | #7
The funny thing about the way that WoW was during vanilla/BC is that casuals still played the game and had fun. Did they get to see everything? No, and (I say this having not seen any of Sunwell before the 3.0 patch) that's a good thing. They don't have to be extensive, but there should actually be places in an MMO that are difficult simply to *see*, to say nothing of actually killing the bosses there and getting the gear.

I doubt that anyone will make another MMO that has the old WoW philosophy, but man... it would be nice.

Rotny's Avatar


Rotny
02.02.2012 , 01:16 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Valtrim View Post
The funny thing about the way that WoW was during vanilla/BC is that casuals still played the game and had fun. Did they get to see everything? No, and (I say this having not seen any of Sunwell before the 3.0 patch) that's a good thing. They don't have to be extensive, but there should actually be places in an MMO that are difficult simply to *see*, to say nothing of actually killing the bosses there and getting the gear.

I doubt that anyone will make another MMO that has the old WoW philosophy, but man... it would be nice.

I agree, it's sad but I don't think anyone's going to make an mmo I want to play these days. It's all about trying to get a piece of that revenue wow has generated and less about creating an epic game. I'm guessing this is cause EA is publishing this and of course they expect millions of subscribers and for their stock to go up... but at least 12 year timmy is raiding hardmode EV im his first mmo ever!!!! /sarcasm
I never even saw more of BWL and none of Naxx during vanilla but this didn't bother me one bit, infact it made the game seem bigger, more challenging and more attractive to me.

Darcedge's Avatar


Darcedge
02.02.2012 , 01:39 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Talorra View Post
So cut endgame content out from everyone but the hardcore?

No.

Seriously. Why do people always want to make stuff harder for everyone by default? If you want hard, grab 7 friends and bang your head against the wall on nightmare mode, or even better...grab 15 friends and bang your head against the wall on nightmare.

Leave it the way it is, I don't care about Nightmare or anything, I just want to be able to see the raid and the fights and the story.

Please if anyone at BW is looking at this please leave the way it is.


Sorry If I came off brash but the challenge is there for people who want it, why force it down everyone's throat?
"Prejudice set to Maximum"

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
02.02.2012 , 02:38 PM | #10
I posted in a similar thread a few days back, about how the difference between Normal Hard and Nightmare simply needs to be changed - along with possibly loot distribution.

Frankly, I don't care too much about the loot distribution, if Nightmare dropped the same as Normal etc.
I would however want some form of reward other than 'feeling good'. Be it a title (which they provide for speed runs ofc) or just the same stats on gear, only looking different (or slightly improved).

The reason for this I feel is that techinically speaking - the CONTENT is virtually the same. Even if the mechanics change slightly in Nightmare and general difficulty increases etc. Even if BETTER loot drops in Nightmare;

As long as every CASUAL player gets the opportunity to be able to clear all of NORMAL (which is very much do-able atm). Then I think its perfect.

Because they have then experienced pretty much all the content and gotten very nice loot etc as reward.

And for those who seek a more challenging environment the NIGHTMARE mode is there, which NOT EVERYONE can do, only the best. And leave it as that - nobody can really complain that Nightmare is too hard and they never got to see content - because they still got to play the easier version.

It would be like buying Mass Effect 3, and then crying saying: Hard Mode is too hard. There is the obvious solution to that - which is select easy.

Same with raids, make Nightmare and actual Nightmare, and for those who cant cut it - they can still do virtually the same raid, only easier on Normal.

And not to forget Hardmode - This would stay as an actual IN THE MIDDLE difficulty.

So if anyone's reading this at BW - I suggest increasing the GAP between difficulties to provide a higher challenge. Keeping Normal as it is, boosting HM and boosting NMM even more.

As for loot, liek I said before: There's quite a few suggestions that would be possible, tier the loot better between modes. Give 16m ever so slightly improved gear over 8m maybe, or keep them all the same. I won't comment much on this, because I just dont care for it as much.


P.S:

As for the whole doing quest lines to obtain the 'key' to operations etc. I do think it's a good idea as long as they're not too long-winded. However although this would kinda screw with the story a bit - I would suggest that the 'Key' from quests only be necessity for the Hardmode and Nightmare Mode (or even just Nightmare), solely for the purpose that the casual players can still play everything without worrying about a long winded quest line (Despite the fact that they may then also miss out on a bit of story).

This seems fair to me, whaddya think?