Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

Since the iterations of this monster actually seem to get more civilized and reasonable, I'll have another go at it:

The problem is that Need/Greed(/Pass) is a very binary system, and the line between Need and Greed is not a hard one - it's extremely blurry.
There exist a lot of cases between "Yay, perfect item, I'll never ever wear anything else again" and "Meh, vendorcrap" - and quite a lot of them could be very reasonably qualified as "Need".

Let's try listing by priority:
- Best-in-slot.
- Best-in-slot when properly modded.
- Perfect Look, will use as base item for endgame mods.
- Best-in-slot for companion.
- Best-in-slot for companion if properly modded.
- Perfectly matched stats and major upgrade, moddable.
- Perfectly matched stats and major upgrade.
- Useful Stats, major upgrade, moddable.
- Useful Stats, major upgrade.
- Perfect Stats for companion, major upgrade, moddable.
- Perfect Stats for companion.
- Perfect Stats, minor upgrade, moddable.
- Perfect Stats, minor upgrade.
- Useful Stats for companion, major upgrade, moddable.
- Useful Stats for companion, major upgrade.
- Useful Stats for companion, minor upgraade, moddable.
- Useful Stats for companion, minor upgrade.
- Perfect Look, will use as base item for endgame mods on companion.
- Nice look, will mod it and wear it for a time/keep in storage for occasions.
- Nice look for companion, will mod it and wear it for a time/keep in storage for occasions.
- Can use some of the mods to upgrade.
- Can use some of the mods to upgrade companion.
- Will dissamble/reverse-engineer.
- Will vendor it.

('not sure if you'll all agree with those priorities, I tried to sort them by how much and how long an item will be used and how easy it is to replace it - there's certainly room for discussion.)

So .... where do you draw the line between "Need" and "Greed"?
Personally, I'd say the last six on that list are clear-cut Greed - which makes everything above it .... ?
At least far enough removed from "Will vendor" to merit not having to roll against everyone's Greed for credits.

Now, you'll argue that "Best-in-slot" and "Perfect look for companion" are hardly the same priority - and I'll actually agree. But they're still both a "Need". The Item will be used, won't be easily replaced, if ever ...
As a result, we're at a point where the loot system leaves us with a choice of potentially wronging either player - by having one gamble for his best-in-slot items, or by potentially asking people to waste items and having them get vendored by others instead of using them.

And no, adding more loot priorities won't help. Well, unless you really implement all the above priorities, manage to find a way to get everyone to agree on excact order ... and turn the whole loot system into a messy monster.

Let's face it: There is no simple and just and infallible rule.
The only working one, the one that always resurfaces in every MMO yet is this: You'll use it: roll Need, you could make some credits: roll Greed.
So simple, and ... excactly what so many in this thread don't want to hear.
Still, that's as far as any rule can and, more importatanly, should go.
You are entitled to a roll. You are not entitled to winning it.


Of course there's one extention to that: Courtesy.
If you realize that some other person's Need might be as important as your own, or even more important, you can remember to be a nice person ... and pass for him/her.
BUT:
This is NOT something you can demand!
This is not something you can make a rule for!
This is ENTIRELY voluntary, and has to be, or it is meaningless.
And you will have to accept that you won't be getting the benefit of courtesy if you yourself aren't willing or able to behave like a nice person, too.
Which is probably why there's so many trolls in this topic - the second you demand(!) the loot, the second you belittle and insult others, the second you disregard other's need ... that's when, at least in my opinion, you lose all claims to the benefit of courtesy!
Though other thing might play into this, too, like being a loadstone for the group thanks to slacking on your gear beforehand, thanks to not knowing how to play your role and class, thanks to not listening to advice on tactics, ... the list goes on.
Being terribad is NOT an giving you an entitlement on loot - just the contrary.


TL;DR: Ask me to not roll on your major upgrades, and I probably will do so, unless it's an item that I've been after specifically ... in which case I might ask YOU to pass it up. Actually ... even expect it, since I'd have mentioned that detail at the start of the run.
DEMAND that I do not roll ... and all you'll get is a finger. Guess which one.

The one on the left Mouse Button pressing "Need"?

I might use a different order for some, but generally speaking those last six would be "greed" for me, and probably a number of the ones above that depending what I am currently wearing. For example, if I am wearing orange armor, I might very well not roll on "better" non-moddable armor (but I certainly think people should be able to roll on upgrade armor if they want).

Cyclical arguing on internet forums is so passe. I promise you if you learn that you don't need to get everyone in the world (or this thread) to agree with you on any subject, you will be happier and one step closer to emotionally mature.

Agree to disagree, go logon with yoour favourite toon and play however you like. For those that feel the desire to smash their screen when a PuG member does somethhing they disagree with, only play with guild and friends. For everyone else, have fun out there.

/logic

problem with that is - one side who complains on forums with no one disagreeing with the complaints = BW changing things so ppl stop complaining.

I don't want BW to change things so I am dictated to by other players when it comes to what loot I would like to run group content for - therefore i personally will be JUST as loud about me NOT wanting to be dictated to about loot as they are about wanting to dictate to me about loot.

There is one set of equipment you need to dress your char. You have 5 sets of equipment to dress your companions. So when are we going to find the time to get them dressed if we are passing for stuff all the time? Maybe I want to run pugs just to dress my companion. Why does your time and effort give you greater right to roll need then mine when I am joining a pug to dress my companion? Fact is its not.

Freak out all you like but here is the fact. BW made this game where your companions are needed to be able to fill the ranks of whats missing solo and teamed. That means BW has asked every player to dress at least 4 companions (dont need to dress the companion that fills the roll you play) Companions wear the same gear players do. As long as the above two points are in the game not rolling need in a pug for your companion is a fail and I dont want BW to change it. I like this system.

When I am with a guildie or friend I will always let my friend take what they need for their main before I roll need for a companion. This isn't going to be the way of pugs and there is no one to get mad at but BW. This is not the players faults that are rolling need because they do need it. Glass cannons and healers need a well dressed tank to play. Tanks need a strong healer companion. And if you dont roll need for your companion you are fooling your self if you think it brings some higher standard of gaming. It just slows down your progress. PUGs are what they are, I am here for me and so are you!! Its been like that the 13 years I have MMOed from EQ1 to SWTOR.PUGs are not there for the warm fuzzy exp you get from teaming with guildies and friends.

One thought to remember for all you people asking for there to be a line in the and from BW with companion only gear and player only gear. Get ready for a longer grind to dress you and your companion. Now when you kill that boss and that perfect chest slot drops as the orange or purple you will cry when it says companion only. When you are dressed and you are trying to get that companion chest slot and its the player one you will kick your self when you do the math and you realize you need to do twice as many runs to get the same amount of equipment. No fun.

No, a character that I control is a player character. A character that I don't control is a non-player character.

Companions are only NPC's before they are your companions. After they become your companions they're Player characters.

Personally, I think we should just have everyone come up with their own priorities rather than force a universal system that doesn't actually match thier own priorities.

I mean, mine are significantly different; among other things, I put appearance over "BiS".

Then you have nothing to worry about, because if you value looks over stats, chances are you won't be very useful to a group anyway.