Please, Don't Roll on Items for Another Class in Your Team

Yeah, blacklists don't work. I'm more likely to take note of the person doing the blacklisting as someone who's overly sensitive and should be avoided.

I'm amazed at the inconsiderate nature of people. You would think I would be used to it after playing MMOs for years, but it still astounds me. I go through most instances with my best friend and I STILL ask if it is okay if I roll need on gear for my companion or whatever. It is simple courtesy. I could simply roll need and he wouldn't stop being my friend or anything. If I can show that courtesy to someone that will be my friend regardless, why can't people extend that same courtesy to strangers?

Stop being selfish.

I admit to having trouble with this.

First, we aren't setting rules, which is the whole point of our argument: the rules are already in place, we use them as "written", we aren't attempting to add on to them in a fashion that tells another player that their choices aren't acceptable. We're letting people do what they want.

You're attempting to tell other players that they can only roll Need if they receive your approval (the general "your", not specific). We're rebutting that and saying that players don't require each others' approval to roll Need on something. The system lets them decide for themselves, and we think that works just fine.

No that's not quite what I'm saying.

I'll admit I was using a bit of the other sides logic to make my point, which would explain the confusion in what I was saying. I was arguing their point, but with a twist to make the larger point, that Need should be based on what is an Upgrade, and not based on who will wear it.

So sorry to all for the confusion.

Now back to the point.

If that blue item is in fact an upgrade, then that is a different thing. However my point is, that it's really not that hard to keep orange items upgraded to the point that they are the BiS item you can have. If that is true, then it does in fact change the dynamic of gear because FP blues may not always be an upgrade.

How am I making the rules? I'll telling you the facts as they are available in game.

If you're so closed to logic, maybe you should leave the thread?

So, in your mind it's selfish to be fair and fair to be selfish?

We aren't being selfish. We're standing up for the rights the system gives us, and saying that we don't require another player's approval to exercise said rights. We may do so as a courtesy, but we understand it isn't required, and thus don't grow upset if someone doesn't show that courtesy.

It isn't selfish to stake a claim to something you have an equal right to as anyone else present. If four of us go into a junkyard and find a car that has a diamond stashed in its dashboard, we all four found it. We all four want it equally, though for different reasons (1 to give to his girlfriend, 1 to sell, 1 to sew into a garment, 1 to put into the pommel of a sword they're making for a Renaissance Faire). So we decide to roll a 6-sided die for it, as one of us has one. We each roll, the highest roll gets it, ties re-roll.

We don't let someone say "My need is more than yours, so you should give it to me!" We recognize equal claim due to equal effort at finding the diamond.

That's what's happening in the game: equal effort to generate the piece from the defeated boss, and thus equal, impartial rolls to determine its ownership.

That's all we're advocating.

Which is more selfish?

A) Rolling Need on an item you don't actually need, and will likely sell to a vendor.

B) Rolling Need on an item that you will equip and use.

Of course everyone here thinks their way is fair. The problem is that the fairness of your way is simply, and objectively, provably false.

Your way is only fair within the confines which you define for everyone - specifically, primary stat/class rolling. But as soon as you introduce anyone else's potential use for an item, any other reason they may want it, your system discriminates against those people. The fairness evaporates. You only achieve fairness by disregarding any need other than the one you choose, which is in itself inherently unfair.

This is why more and more I'm thinking the real problem here isn't loot rules, it's "You're playing wrong" attitudes.

No. But please continue to try to interpret how you like.