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Why did Yoda and Obiwan hide?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why did Yoda and Obiwan hide?

Unext's Avatar


Unext
02.02.2012 , 10:21 AM | #11
What I really need explained is how did Obiwan and Yoda age so freaking much in 20 years? If you look at the last prequel Obiwan is young and vital, 20 years later he is OLD and frail??? What the heck happened in those 20 years to do that to a Jedi?

Same thing for Yoda...young and vital and 20 years later he's old and dying?? WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED???

Assumption's Avatar


Assumption
02.02.2012 , 10:24 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Unext View Post
What I really need explained is how did Obiwan and Yoda age so freaking much in 20 years? If you look at the last prequel Obiwan is young and vital, 20 years later he is OLD and frail??? What the heck happened in those 20 years to do that to a Jedi?

Same thing for Yoda...young and vital and 20 years later he's old and dying?? WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED???
You go from living in the metropolitan heart of civilization to living in a hut in a swamp or desert and see how great you look in 20 years.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
02.02.2012 , 10:35 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Propecius View Post
As much as I agree that it doesn't make sense, the "real" answer in GL's head is probably that Yoda could see the various futures their actions could create, and knew the "right" one (which just happened to lead them into episodes IV-VI). And probably something about how it had to unfold that way to "bring balance to the Force."

There was another thread on what bringing balance to the Force meant. I always suspected it was Vader's turning back to the light side by killing Sidious that caused the balance to be returned, but that we never got to see the results for the Force. Maybe its power was going to increase again in episodes VII-IX (which GL now says he never really planned to do, but we know back in the day he said he would).
This is pretty damn close, actually. A while ago I was noticing hugely glaring plot holes in quite a few movies/books/etc.

So I decided to see if I could look up reasons why, and to put it simply Yoda had a vision of the future and that he wasn't supposed to defeat the Emperor now... even though he could have defeated Sidious, it mentioned him being one of the few who could defeat Sidious in a straight up fight IIRC.

So basically, Yoda could have killed Sidious. Anakin would have died on Mustafar. The surviving Jedi could congregate and replenish their numbers. No immediate threats from the Sith, only have to worry about an army of killer clones who have lost their immediate forms of direction...

Heck, probably could have even exposed Palpatine as a Sith Lord and gotten the Jedi Order cleared of all that hate...

But instead, plot hole happens and Yoda goes to Dagobah. He allows the entirety of the galaxy to be plunged into totalitarian rule and a living hell for pretty much everyone not directly working in the Imperial Military.
"The Force will set me free!"
Darth Tybek Maar, Wraith of Taris
Wraith (The Story of Tybek) - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246582

KitloHearod's Avatar


KitloHearod
02.02.2012 , 12:29 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
This is pretty damn close, actually. A while ago I was noticing hugely glaring plot holes in quite a few movies/books/etc.

So I decided to see if I could look up reasons why, and to put it simply Yoda had a vision of the future and that he wasn't supposed to defeat the Emperor now... even though he could have defeated Sidious, it mentioned him being one of the few who could defeat Sidious in a straight up fight IIRC.

So basically, Yoda could have killed Sidious. Anakin would have died on Mustafar. The surviving Jedi could congregate and replenish their numbers. No immediate threats from the Sith, only have to worry about an army of killer clones who have lost their immediate forms of direction...

Heck, probably could have even exposed Palpatine as a Sith Lord and gotten the Jedi Order cleared of all that hate...

But instead, plot hole happens and Yoda goes to Dagobah. He allows the entirety of the galaxy to be plunged into totalitarian rule and a living hell for pretty much everyone not directly working in the Imperial Military.
I may not be 100% correct on this, but the reasoning they split up was very simple. From Episode 1 to 3, Yoda mentioned something clouded his vision of the Force.

Upon approaching the confrontation with Sidious, after Order 66, Yoda broke through that fog. He saw that Sidious was too strong, and Yoda entered the battle knowing he would be unable to overcome the Dark Lord.

Yoda knew the Sith had a thousand years of power built up into one extremely intelligent individual. Sidious had plans for nearly every outcome ready, alongside the fact he was one of the most skilled swordsman in the galaxy coupled with nearly unparalleled power in the Force, at the time.

They split up to avoid being completely exterminated. If Sidious encountered them together, the Jedi would have been entirely destroyed. The Jedi split up, in hopes of being able to survive long enough to defeat Sidious. They could not win in an up-front confrontation.
Port Nowhere to go everywhere.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
02.02.2012 , 09:03 PM | #15
The RotS novel actually explains this really well. During the fight with Sidious, Yoda realizes something. It's not really a vision in the Force or anything like that, it's just a mundane epiphany, that he cannot win. That Jedi Master Yoda, the oldest and most powerful of the Jedi Council, the paragon of what it means to be a Jedi, just does not have what it takes.

The Sith, he realizes, have changed. More than just the Rule of Two philosophy, they have completely altered how they go about doing things, have in essence completely changed what it means to be Sith, with the only constants still the name, Dark Side power, and red lightsabers (and the lightsabers, in a very real way, are more of an afterthought. Sidious certainly didn't need a lightsaber to become the highest-scoring Jedi killer in history.) The Sith had, over the last thousand years, changed the very rules of the ancient Jedi vs. Sith war. In the meantime, the Jedi had been retraining to fight the LAST war.

Yoda, and his Jedi Order, simply weren't able to face these new Sith in any meaningful way, and would be utterly destroyed by them if they tried. Yoda knew this, and also knew that, if he fell before Sidious, he would be unable to pass on what he had just figured out.

This is also why Obi-Wan doesn't raise Luke himself, training him from infancy as Anakin SHOULD have been trained. Because, to combat these new Sith, a new kind of Jedi is needed.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

HagenVonTronje's Avatar


HagenVonTronje
02.02.2012 , 09:23 PM | #16
The ridiculous outcome of putting Yoda in the prequels as some kind of urbanite on Coruscant. There is no logical way to resolve this and the way they chose to do it, while no more illogical than any other option, is still profoundly illogical.

In fairness, the original trilogy doesn't have a very sensible background. How Luke has escaped Vader's notice is already perplexing in light of Vader being his father (further evidence that in the original, he wasn't). So yeah, the insanity began right in the second movie, which was great, but still introduced plot holes.

Dackius's Avatar


Dackius
02.03.2012 , 12:38 AM | #17
Why did they hide? For the same reason Obi-Wan tells Vader "You can't win, I have the higher ground" in the 3rd movie, while the first movie Darth Maul has the higher ground and simple force push would end things, but the EVIL guy doesn't seem to want to kill Obi-Wan.

The movies don't follow logic, or even really remember the past well. They were written quickly and to make money. I am sure GL put alot of thought into so many concepts of how things could have happened, and then lost track of things while writing the script and having it passed around to editors, etc.

The problem really is they were so busy pleasing the fans and making the Hero's look cool, so people wouldn't claim Yoda was better than that..... that the forgot to do a convincing job of showing Yoda lose... looks like he was winning when I watch it. I mean they should have had him break a leg or something to explain the limp and rapid decline in ability in the later movies... explaining why an immediate combined attack couldn't happen.

Sadly, this is too much conversation put into a movie where some dies from losing the will to live and having no injury, but something losing all their limbs and left in a pool of lava isn't even a major health concern.

Bionixx's Avatar


Bionixx
02.03.2012 , 12:49 AM | #18
Why didn't they 2v1 the Emperor and then 2v1 Vader?!
Something, something, something, dark side.
Something, something, something, complete.

Felbear's Avatar


Felbear
02.03.2012 , 02:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Dackius View Post
Why did they hide? For the same reason Obi-Wan tells Vader "You can't win, I have the higher ground" in the 3rd movie, while the first movie Darth Maul has the higher ground and simple force push would end things, but the EVIL guy doesn't seem to want to kill Obi-Wan.

The movies don't follow logic, or even really remember the past well. They were written quickly and to make money. I am sure GL put alot of thought into so many concepts of how things could have happened, and then lost track of things while writing the script and having it passed around to editors, etc.

The problem really is they were so busy pleasing the fans and making the Hero's look cool, so people wouldn't claim Yoda was better than that..... that the forgot to do a convincing job of showing Yoda lose... looks like he was winning when I watch it. I mean they should have had him break a leg or something to explain the limp and rapid decline in ability in the later movies... explaining why an immediate combined attack couldn't happen.

Sadly, this is too much conversation put into a movie where some dies from losing the will to live and having no injury, but something losing all their limbs and left in a pool of lava isn't even a major health concern.
Darth Maul was arrogant though, as was Vader. Obi-wan survived Maul on nothing but pure luck.

Shaligal's Avatar


Shaligal
02.03.2012 , 05:47 AM | #20
First attack got a surprise factor, but doing a second one? Probably to reach Sidious and Vader, Yoda and Obi-wan would need to kill an entire army. They are Jedis, and were strong ones, but they cant beat a whole army plus 2 Siths.