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CelCawdro's Avatar
CelCawdro
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
I would like to personally apologize to “Elikal” and anyone I may have offended. My intention was not to demean anyone but simply to help promote a community that could discuss topics in a mature fashion. When I first built the word filter list, I added a variety of terms to the word filter that have been used numerous times in derogatory messaging. There were some words added to the filter that should not have been – we corrected this today.

I apologize for the confusion that this has created but I would like to be clear that there was never any intent to limit discussion. That said, I have overstepped my boundaries in my original statement and I sincerely apologize for doing so.

-Sean
Although I fully support your previous decision (and the assertion that there are no homosexuals in Star Wars, although I would elaborate concerning the completely different concepts of sexual orientation between our world and theirs), I have to respect you for this.
 
Bluestone's Avatar
Bluestone
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelCawdro
The above poster nailed it. Just as it would be anachronistic to label, say, a nun as a lesbian or a Greek soldier as gay, it would be anachronistic (a long time ago) to do the same to the Star Wars universe. Sexuality is merely percieved differently. I have a feeling that it is much the same as most medieval or classical concepts; it is not so much, "do you like guys or girls?" but, "are you sexual or not?" A Roman would never see himself as a gay pedophile. Those concepts did not exist until modern times. He would have merely been "sexual." This debate is starting to bring me back to one of my classes, Fringes of the Middle Ages. In that class, I constantly argued against anachronistic labels of people, because a) they wouldn't have made sense to the groups being labeled; and b) it is therefore a terrible way to catergorize, because those words are so loaded with modern preconceptions and connotations which did not exist in those times, and likewise, do not exist in Star Wars.
You confuse me but I think you were agreeing...
 
Inzane's Avatar
Inzane
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
I would like to personally apologize to “Elikal” and anyone I may have offended. My intention was not to demean anyone but simply to help promote a community that could discuss topics in a mature fashion. When I first built the word filter list, I added a variety of terms to the word filter that have been used numerous times in derogatory messaging. There were some words added to the filter that should not have been – we corrected this today.

I apologize for the confusion that this has created but I would like to be clear that there was never any intent to limit discussion. That said, I have overstepped my boundaries in my original statement and I sincerely apologize for doing so.

-Sean
Nothing is good enough. This is what Torm was talking about by the world being forced to walk on eggshells. This whole episode was ridiculous.

Incredibly ridiculous. Especially now that I'm going to be hypocritically painted as some hateful redneck for speaking my mind, which is exactly what the OP did.
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
80% Explorer 60% Achiever 47% Socializer 13% Killer
It's Star Wars, man. There's sound in space. -Grondoth
 
Bluestone's Avatar
Bluestone
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodigg
What about positive discrimination? Celebrating cultural differences? Biological differences (e.g., professional athletes, models)? All this talk of "discrimination" often leaves out the clarifying term "negative". Some forms of discrimination are good (e.g., "fire is hot!").

For example, when my girlfriend came to the US from the philippines, should she have attempted to blend in entirely or was she correct to be proud of her heritage even as she integrated with US culture?

(Note: I am not saying "positive stereotyping", which is different and often just as damaging as "negative stereotyping".)
Even labelling for the purpose of praise is needlessly seperating people.

How do those people feel that are "normal" (or "not different") because they don't get special parades and celebrations.

That is still discrimination.

Culturally... interesting. I was thinking soley about skin colour and sexuality when making my prior comments. There is indeed a wealth of wonderful cultures in the world (some things are still wrong though in some cultures). In a perfect world those could be expressed with being tied to skin colour which is obviously a common cause for discrimination.

You could obviously still label people by their occupation, in that you could see someone and think he's a cop, a builder, a banker etc. Some things NEED labels/names. But to differentiate things that don't need to be distinguished from other people is wrong.

Take pride in your culture but only if you can do so by sharing it with the world, meaing don't isolate yourself through it.
 
fodigg's Avatar
fodigg
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzane
Nothing is good enough. This is what Torm was talking about by the world being forced to walk on eggshells. This whole episode was ridiculous.
I don't see how this episode involved "[homosexual] lifestyle is jammed down everybody else's throat".

It was an unfortunate miscommunication. One that was resolved swiftly and deftly. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Bluestone's Avatar
Bluestone
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodigg
was resolved swiftly and deftly.
LOL. Funny guy.
 
Viglione's Avatar
Viglione
Joined: Nov 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzane
Nothing is good enough. This is what Torm was talking about by the world being forced to walk on eggshells. This whole episode was ridiculous.

Incredibly ridiculous. Especially now that I'm going to be hypocritically painted as some hateful redneck for speaking my mind, which is exactly what the OP did.
Please explain how objecting to having the words "gay", "lesbian" and "homosexual" considered an obscenity is jamming that "lifestyle" down peoples throats? Would you say that by not having "straight" and "heterosexual" on there is jamming that "lifestyle" down peoples throats also?
 
they's Avatar
they
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:38 PM
So I'm curious -- Has anyone confirmed/denied that same-sex relationship paths will be in the game? (a la Mass Effect?) or would it be sticking to a opposite only choices?

Not trying to stir the pot, only curious if it's been stated!
 
fodigg's Avatar
fodigg
Joined: Oct 2008
04.28.2009 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluestone
Even labelling for the purpose of praise is needlessly seperating people.

How do those people feel that are "normal" (or "not different") because they don't get special parades and celebrations.

That is still discrimination.

Culturally... interesting. I was thinking soley about skin colour and sexuality when making my prior comments. There is indeed a wealth of wonderful cultures in the world (some things are still wrong though in some cultures). In a perfect world those could be expressed with being tied to skin colour which is obviously a common cause for discrimination.

You could obviously still label people by their occupation, in that you could see someone and think he's a cop, a builder, a banker etc. Some things NEED labels/names. But to differentiate things that don't need to be distinguished from other people is wrong.

Take pride in your culture but only if you can do so by sharing it with the world, meaing don't isolate yourself through it.
I think people should be allowed to take pride in what they are. If you feel like you're being left out because you don't have a parade, I hope you live in a place where you can put together a parade and nobody would look at you funny. And people would show up to participate.

Parade for people with beards named jeff. Go do it. If it's near me, I will show up, have a beer, and cheer. Why not?
 
Kevar's Avatar
Kevar
Joined: Mar 2009
04.28.2009 , 03:42 PM
A minority requesting that they be represented in a game that is entirely about developing the identity of your character requires loudness. If they don't make their voices heard, Bioware doesn't see the demand, and it doesn't go in the game. It's not the fault of the original poster or anyone other than the sensationalist nature of media that Kotaku blew the situation out of proportion. The double-edged sword of making your voice heard is that if you aren't quiet, people opposed to you say you're shoving your message down their throat, while if you say nothing, things stay the same.

It's unfortunate Sean was presented as being malicious rather than making an easy mistake in how he handled the issue, but it led to exposure and provided greater discourse to the subject. He's handling it very well now and should be out of the fire once the media catches up with the news. Blaming the players who want representation in the game for sloppy journalism only makes the situation worse.
The Dauntless Reverie - a fellowship against slavery (RP)
 
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