Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Dawn of the Jedi


Keihryon's Avatar


Keihryon
02.02.2012 , 05:43 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by ShadoeWrayth View Post
Amazing how I have been saying this for the last week or so on several different threads, and everyone keeps shooting me down, saying no, the force has nothing to do with lightsabers. Like they are just scientific gadgets that are electrically powered and have lazer or plasma beams...

Ergh, I really hate it when people HAVE to have a logical, scientific explanation for stuff, and refuse to accept that in a fantasy story with 'magic' of some sort, that the reason some things work, is.... MAGIC...

The Rakata were very strong with the Force, and very smart with Technology... so they built almost all of their tech to use the Force... Hence why when they got that disease/plague whatever, it separated them from the Force, and their Technology basically became useless...

So, now we are being told that it is Canon, Lightsabers channel the Force to make the blades... does not surprise me, and seeing as how the Rakata couldn't use them (according to every site I have seen, they lost the use of all the techs that had anything to do with the Force)... That means you have the be Force Attuned/Sensitive to use Lightsabers...

Awesome... Simplifies a whole lot of questions, I think... Black Lightsaber is definitely possible then, because it's the Force making the beam, not some scientific process involving light or plasma, or magnetic fields, or whatever... The Force!
Except lightsabers aren't forcesabers. While lightsabers evolved from forcesabers, the method of their creation is different. the lightsaber is technologically created...but!...during that creation the jedi infused the device with the force making it more efficient.

That's why Han Solo could operate Luke's.

ShadoeWrayth's Avatar


ShadoeWrayth
02.02.2012 , 06:59 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Keihryon View Post
Except lightsabers aren't forcesabers. While lightsabers evolved from forcesabers, the method of their creation is different. the lightsaber is technologically created...but!...during that creation the jedi infused the device with the force making it more efficient.

That's why Han Solo could operate Luke's.
There are inherent problems in that scenario that really bug me on all sorts of levels... I will still go back to the basic idea: There is a reason you ONLY see Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith, using Light Sabers... If it did not require the force to use them, then there would be armies of soldiers who carry a blaster rifle AND a Light Saber... AND are trained in how to use them... Even if they are not excellent at using them, they would be at least as good as an average Jedi (but still get schooled by Yoda/Windu, but no surprise there)... and who would make these armies that many Light Sabers? Well, let's just say there would be a whole lot of flashing red... A Sith would use an army of Light Saber wielding troopers in a heartbeat...

So, what is stopping that then?

Crystals are plentiful (and apparently, can be made in a laboratory according to the first post in this thread), all else is just technology and needs Force Users to 'imbue' them... Then, someone had to train the army, easily done, there are more than enough Sith being poured out of Korriban at certain points in the time line... More than enough to train the troops in Shii-Cho, or even better, Makashi...

Kekkles's Avatar


Kekkles
02.02.2012 , 07:52 PM | #13
The knowledge to build them is guarded by the Jedi and Sith.

They are not the only ones who can use them, however.

Boba Fett fought Darth Vader (albiet he lost, quickly) with a lightsaber. General Grievous was not force sensitive, and he could use not one, not two, not three, but four at a time (Dooku taught him technique, but that's it).

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
02.02.2012 , 08:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Kekkles View Post
Forcesabers may have channeled force to make their blades, but LIGHTSABERS do NOT!
Correct. The Rakata channeled the Dark Side through their sabers. Lightsabers are not reliant on the Force, and they are purely mechanical, though the Force is required to create one properly. There are weapons like lightsabers made and used by some non-Force sensitives called lightfoils. They lack the efficiency and quality of the Jedi-made sabers, but they are fully functional.

Quote: Originally Posted by ShadoeWrayth View Post
There are inherent problems in that scenario that really bug me on all sorts of levels... I will still go back to the basic idea: There is a reason you ONLY see Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith, using Light Sabers... If it did not require the force to use them, then there would be armies of soldiers who carry a blaster rifle AND a Light Saber... AND are trained in how to use them... Even if they are not excellent at using them, they would be at least as good as an average Jedi (but still get schooled by Yoda/Windu, but no surprise there)... and who would make these armies that many Light Sabers? Well, let's just say there would be a whole lot of flashing red... A Sith would use an army of Light Saber wielding troopers in a heartbeat...

So, what is stopping that then?
Same reason we don't use swords and hammers in combat anymore: firearms have too many advantages over melee weapons. They have much greater range, obviously, but it's much easier to teach someone to shoot a rifle than it is to teach swordfighting. In Star Wars, a lightsaber in the hands of a "mundane" person loses many of the properties that a proper Force user can give it, like reflecting blaster bolts (a non-Force user would lack the reflexes/precognition to do that effectively). For non-Force users, the blaster is in every way superior for combat.

That said, let's not turn this into another lightsaber debate thread, and let's keep the discussion related to the Dawn of the Jedi era stuff. Issue 1 goes on sale in two weeks, so there will be more to talk about then, but this issue 0 is pretty full of background info, and it's really interesting in its own right.

One thing I noticed: despite Lucas' supposed refusal to accept anymore wookiee jedi, one of the Temple Masters of the Je'daii is a wookiee. There also are actual pureblooded Sith (not purebloods like in TOR) on Tython as well.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.

psychogobstopper's Avatar


psychogobstopper
02.02.2012 , 08:36 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JacenHallis View Post
There also are actual pureblooded Sith (not purebloods like in TOR) on Tython as well.
I find this to be the most interesting piece of information in the thread so far. The previous assumption was that the Sith species wasn't known until the Dark Jedi exiled after the Hundred-Year Darkness discovered and conquered Korriban. This suggests that Sith may have been a known species at one time, and perhaps later became a "lost" species (perhaps in a similar manner to the Rakata?).

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
02.02.2012 , 08:48 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by psychogobstopper View Post
I find this to be the most interesting piece of information in the thread so far. The previous assumption was that the Sith species wasn't known until the Dark Jedi exiled after the Hundred-Year Darkness discovered and conquered Korriban. This suggests that Sith may have been a known species at one time, and perhaps later became a "lost" species (perhaps in a similar manner to the Rakata?).
I think the Sith became forgotten over time. Dawn of the Jedi takes place at least 25,000 years BBY. The Hundred-Year Darkness was c. 7000 BBY. That's a lot of time for an unsustainable species population to die out.

The story goes that these pyramid ships gathered force-sensitive beings from all over the gelaxy (twi'lek, human, sith, wookiee, cathar, selkath and so on) and deposited them on Tython. There is no reliable means of hyperspace travel yet (at least that doesn't use the Dark Side, and that's Rakata technology), so the people have only spread so far as the other worlds in their solar system. I imagine that the upcoming Force Wars will see a lot of death, and many species' representatives in the system will be wiped out because of the conflict.

The Jedi Order, unless this is retconned later) isn't formed until after the Tythonians leave the planet and move to Ossus. So, in the intervening 15-18,000 years, the knowlegge and any records of those species that didn't make it off Tython were lost, and everyone had to meet up again the old-fashioned way.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.

psychogobstopper's Avatar


psychogobstopper
02.02.2012 , 09:01 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JacenHallis View Post
I think the Sith became forgotten over time. Dawn of the Jedi takes place at least 25,000 years BBY. The Hundred-Year Darkness was c. 7000 BBY. That's a lot of time for an unsustainable species population to die out.
Based on this interview with John Ostrander and Jan Duursema, it looks like there's an even larger amount of time than that. Ostrander says the series starts in 36,453 BBY, then proceeds up to and picks up in earnest in 25,793 BBY with the first of the Force Wars.

Thanks for expanding on how the Tythonian residents were brought to the planet. That certainly makes it easy for some members of the Sith species to be known by some individuals, while still allowing the species to only become "general" knowledge among a larger set of individuals after Korriban is conquered.

The more I read in this thread (and in that interview), the more tempted I am to actually start picking up single issues of a comic series for the first time since 2007. Now if only I had storage space...

Edited to add: And I just noticed that Ostrander addressed the topic of the Sith species and the Dark Jedi exiles in that interview.

albynomonk's Avatar


albynomonk
02.03.2012 , 01:21 AM | #18
I read issue 0 today, and the only problem I have with the story is that they have changed the Sith (as I understand them). Are the "pureblood sith" still a mix between the original dark jedi that ruled on Korriban after being exiled from Tython and the true Sith species? If so, it's kind of impossible for "pureblood sith" to be around on Tython at that time...

Edit: Isn't this http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...omonk/sith.jpg what sith looked like back then?
The Gunanoot Legacy - The Harbinger
Tito, Soren, Zzoren, DrManhattan, DoubleOh, Mookie

bliapis's Avatar


bliapis
02.03.2012 , 02:11 AM | #19
I like what i read. And i find it just right for the group of "Jeen-Dai" grasped the meaning of the Force best that neither the Jedi or Sith ever did.

Because there is no good without evil. Eleminating one will destroy the other too.

Balance is the key.
i5 2500k OC @ 4Ghz | Thermaltek Hyper TX3 air cooler | 8gb Corsair Vengeance | Asus GTX580 CU | Asus Maximus IV GenZ/Gen3 | Thermatek 750W PSU -==- Server: Fredon Nad (EU)// Characters: [B]Vanguard L50: Clipjunkie// [B]Sentinel L50: Seithan// Juggernaur L50: Shaithis // Sorcerer L42: Rasthavas

JacenHallis's Avatar


JacenHallis
02.03.2012 , 02:59 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by albynomonk View Post
Edit: Isn't this http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...omonk/sith.jpg what sith looked like back then?
The Sith in DotJ are pureblooded Sith, meaning that they have not interbred with humans yet. The Sith species is actually made up of a number of castes/races, of which we know four: Kissai, Massassi, Zugurak and Grotthu.

The one you linked looks like a Masassi. It's pretty big, which speaks to its nature as a warrior.
Ruminara Ven
Passion, yet serenity.