McGrumpy here. I'm a member of the Shadow community, and a frequent poster on the Shadow boards (EDIT: GENERAL DISCUSSION MODS MOVED MY THREAD TO SHADOW FORUMS). I want to get this out in the forums which have more traffic because I can see this game going down the same paths that Rift did, which led to thousands of lost subscriptions including my own.

 

For those of you that don't play shadows, skip the next several paragraphs down to the overall point of my post, beyond the specifics of the changes to shadows.

 

Shadow Changes

 

The Shadow changes currently up for 1.1.2 completely change the playstyle of several of the most popular specs. The nerf to "stance dancing" for starters takes out a big element of strategy for both pvp and to a lesser extent pve.

 

The biggest change, however, is the NERF (yes NERF) to the ability Force Strike. Currently the top PVE dps (in almost every PVE fight) is a 0/13/28 hybrid spec, which uses shadow technique rather than force tech, despite being deep balance. The change kills this spec 100%, forcing the use of Force Tech to proc Force Strike.

 

For PvP, this change effectively kills the very popular 23/0/18 tank/damage hybrid DPS spec. Additionally, any serious deep balance PvPer ran almost exlusively in Combat Technique still because it was the only way to stay reasonably survivable without having the burst of the Inf specs. As a deep balance Shadow in pvp now, one my core damaging abilities (Force Strike) is now exclusively usable in Force Tech (not only that but limited by the use of force breach on a target!), which combined with the nerf to stance changing, makes my current play style unusable.

 

I'm not saying that these changes are nerfing the overall shadow class. They are nerfing a specific playstyle that isn't "as intended." To continue to PvP like I currently do I'm going to be forced into that cookie cutter 31/0/10 tank build which is getting significantly buffed (bug fixed) this patch, which in no way appeals to me.

 

 

Overall Gameplay Changes

 

For the people that don't care about the specifics of the Shadow changes, this is my overall point:

 

Bioware is significantly changing a set of playstyles for a certain class 6 weeks into the game, AFTER all the endgame content/pvp content has been beaten. They're taking a playstyle that a lot of Shadow players have gotten used to and loved and getting rid of it. Not because it's was overpowered, but because it was an "unintended style of play."

 

I played Rift (an infinitely more polished albeit less quality game), from release and ended up cancelling for this very reason. They constantly changed the classes with the nerf/buff cycle to where any given patch cycle my class was playing significantly different from the previous.

 

Now the mind boggling thing is where these changes came from in the first place. Nobody is crying "nerf shadows" on the forums. And don't get me wrong that are positive Shadow buffs in the notes as well. But for anyone that knows that class well, knows that these changes will significantly alter how the class is played in PvP as well as PvE, and while time will tell if this was good or bad, my point is:

 

I liked the way my class played! I didn't want a big sweeping change! I wasn't overpowered, LET ME BE ME!

Edited February 2, 2012 by McGrumpy

I don't have a shadow build atm, but I agree with you.

 

All I can say is that if they were going to change, better now than 6 months from now.

/signed

 

Can't even begin to analyze Shadow balance until fundamental issues with the class are addressed, such as missing 25% base damage on project (which is a lot more than a flat 25% because it leaks into other spots in the formula - crit damage, upheaval, etc), project's lag issues, and similar such problems that make it currently impossible to make well-informed balance changes.

I tend not to read walls of text based on "top DPS" when there is no combat log in the game to prove these claims. Wasted thread.

I dont use the hybrid build as I am Darkness Spec Assassin but I understand your frustrations. Nerfing hybrids while letting the bugs in the class remain. Gotta love the priority here.

All I can say is that if they were going to change, better now than 6 months from now.

 

I agree with this.

Points to the OP though for making an interesting post on the subject. I suppose if they were going to completely change the playstyle of my class, it would feel unsettling to me as well. Personally though, if it wasn't intended, then I'd understand their right to change or "fix" it. Hmm. But I'm pretty sure there are bigger bugs to fix.

Completely wrecks Kinetic/Infiltration spec. If they didn't want people to come up with fun hybrid specs, why did they give people the ability to spec in secondary trees to begin with?

 

No one can possibly say using Circling Shadows in a Kinetic build is even remotely 'overpowered' since all it does is help regulate energy usage. This 'you may only play one way' stance is backwards and the antithesis of fun.

Bioware currently has 21 days left with me to make things... well... better... otherwise it is "Les Adieux". Edited February 2, 2012 by StrikeOfLight

Bioware currently has 21 days left with me to make things... well... better... otherwise it is "Les Adieux".

 

I'm sure everyone here will miss you when you leave.

 

Look at the bright side, there's been no "NGE" to remove your class from the game altogether...

 

...yet

 

RIP bio-engineer

Bioware currently has 21 days left with me to make things... well... better... otherwise it is "Les Adieux".

 

You will not be missed.

Pointless design changes made by inept and unprofessional designers. I'm glad they're ruining this game for me; as soon D3 will come out and I can play a game created by real game designers.

Bioware currently has 21 days left with me to make things... well... better... otherwise it is "Les Adieux".

 

Oh noes

I would rather see "significant" changes after 6 weeks vs 6 months or even 6 years.

Bioware is significantly changing a set of playstyles for a certain class 6 weeks into the game, AFTER all the endgame content/pvp content has been beaten.

 

Well, you probably already know what is going to happen...

 

1. The fanbois here will all jump on you, because you dare to question the DEVs.

2. The DEVs will ignore your end-game complaints. Or worse, tell you to roll an alt.

 

I got a 50 Sage, and feel for you. They got to start paying attention to end-game and FAST !

We all know what happened to Operatives in 1.1.1, don't think The Gabe cares about what anyone thinks.

 

Edit:

 

If they're going to touch on hybrid specs, they might as well do the WoW treatment which locks us in the tree until we spec the end talent. AFAIK sorc 25/16 hybrid spec is their best DPS as well and I know for sure that PvP Operative Medics rather get the corrosive grenade/combat stim rather than going all the way to recuperative nanotech.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Optimism

It amazes me that people find a hybrid spec that does more dmg than taking the top tier talent and they don't expect it to get nerfed. Protip: If the top tier talent isn't worth taking because you figured out a wierd combo the devs didn't think of you can be pretty sure that it's doing more dmg than intended.

It amazes me that people find a hybrid spec that does more dmg than taking the top tier talent and they don't expect it to get nerfed. Protip: If the top tier talent isn't worth taking because you figured out a wierd combo the devs didn't think of you can be pretty sure that it's doing more dmg than intended.

 

It took me, and probably a lot of other people like me 30 seconds of looking at the talents to figure out that a hybrid had more damage potential than using a full spec. If it took me 30 seconds, why did it take BW so long to 'fix' this, and why was it implemented in such a form in the first place?

We all know what happened to Operatives in 1.1.1, don't think The Gabe cares about what anyone thinks.

 

I'm an operative and they are fine. People exaggerate so badly on these forums.

Sooo.. about that hybrid nerf...

They are screwing up badly... Trying to balance PVP at the cost of PVE balamce... Welcome to Rift 2.0.

 

Bioware I am PLEADING that you do a little research and get your heads around this... You can NOT balance PVP and PVE together. It does NOT work. PVPers will also be a stream of endless complaints and are the MINORITY.

 

If you want to keep your majority STOP and STOP now with the nerfs. I love this game but will leave for the same reasons I left Rift. The constant tinkering with classes for PVP.

 

Don't ruin this game already and then shake your heads in disbelief when I and the other PVE players hit the road.

First off, I'm not going to say LOLBYE like the 12-year-old fanbois in this thread.

 

Now, let me say that I disagree with you. This is not a deal breaker. Losing Force Strike turns 23/0/18 into 24/0/17. You still get insta-FL, FiB, and the highest-damage Double Strikes in the game.

 

As for the 0/13/28, no, I don't believe that this spec should be strictly better than full balance.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Samyrius

Guys please avoid derailing this into a "f bioware devs" etc thread. I really like this game. Don't get me wrong. It has it's problems and bugs and whatnot, but so far I've very much enjoyed my time playing.

 

However, I don't like changes that are being made that are following the same example of other inexperienced MMO companies which really hurt their games.

 

And the problem I have with Bioware is their communication with their playerbase is almost non-exisistant.

 

If they put something up that was going to say "in two content patches hybrid shadows will break the game in their current state," then I'd accept the changes, but the fact that these changes simply feel... like on a whim. Like we released the game without it being where we had wanted it and NOW we're going to change it. That's unacceptable.

I don't know. I didnt like Balance tree before anyway. It doesn't "feel" right. Bunch of thrown together abilities, ranged melee? It's an oxymoron in the first place, ranged-melee.

 

To me, anything they do to change Balance is a good thing.

 

The idea of a melee with self healing is cool though! They got that part right!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Lawconis

It amazes me that people find a hybrid spec that does more dmg than taking the top tier talent and they don't expect it to get nerfed. Protip: If the top tier talent isn't worth taking because you figured out a wierd combo the devs didn't think of you can be pretty sure that it's doing more dmg than intended.

 

Funny story, the Kinetic/Infiltration hybrid spec doesn't do more damage than a full Kinetic. In fact, it probably does worse since Force Slow is an AoE. What made Kinetic/Infiltration fun for me is it offered a different kind if utility than a straight-up Kinetic build, and was a lot of fun for solo PvE. So explain why it has to be nerfed, Mr. Troll.