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Hardmode bosses need mechanics not unfairness


mArchangel's Avatar


mArchangel
02.19.2012 , 09:21 AM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
I couldn't get past page 10/11, there's just so much stupid in this thread....

I don't get what's wrong with having mechanics while also having to push your class/dps to the limit at the same time? I'd say playing ****tily but dodging mechanics is a boring and horrible way to play but it sounds like what most of the dribble in this thread wants.

Also, before the OP changed his post he was complaining enrage timers were too hard as I remember as I was the first reply to this thread. I walked into a HM D7 yesterday with a fresh 50 tank and a fresh 50 gunslinger(me) and 2 guildies, 1 a columi geared healer and the other a columi geared healer specced for a DPS spec he never played before...

Guess what? We wiped once, and only once, to the entire place and only hit 1 enrage timer on bulwark and that was @ 2%.

Stop playing bad and as I do hate to say this but it's needed here "L2P"
Blaaaaah!!! Did D7 also with no wipe. So what. No L2P needed. Get outta here. And I can change whatever I want and I still stick with the edited post as being the only one that boils it down correctly so that folks like you can understand it. Sorry I could not dumb it down any further. Do you need anything else explained? LO
'If all children would mature according to early indications, the world would be full of geniuses.' - J.W. v.Goethe

mArchangel's Avatar


mArchangel
02.19.2012 , 09:27 AM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by Frozenshiva View Post
Noone and dislexic don't exist. No one and dyslexic do.

Can you please leave this topic now? You're the one not adding anything to it beyond petty immature childish insults.
You made the topic, kudos to you. However you haven't added anything meaningful since then beyond insults to everyone who doesn't agree with you.
If you are as mature as you pretend to be, you'd notice that by now.

This topic isn't about enrages anymore, it's about welfare epics. Put in as little effort as possible and reap maximum rewards. At least that's what you are saying in your comments, likely without even realizing it in your rant.
I don't think you understand anything. And as for your condescending 'dyslexic' (so sorry, but if you would type in my language you probably would make a lot more mistakes, IF you actually understand anything but YOUR language.)this is just outright ridiculous. So this is not about insulting anyone but about defending when I get insulted as to the typical L2P BS. So leave this all how it is and don't state things that are untrue. I don't explode in someone's face because they do not agree with me but because they directly or indirectly attack or insult me or friends that are more than capable of playing this game according to it's rules. So you can go and shove it up yours. This is about fun and not frustration. This has NOTHING to do with easy loot. And just because I have not posted here in a while does not mean that cannot voice my opinion any time. And you Missy, better stop talking trash and comment on facts. The mechanic as is promotes only a punishment component and not a positively motivational challenge. Although this concept seems to challenging for most including yourself.
'If all children would mature according to early indications, the world would be full of geniuses.' - J.W. v.Goethe

mArchangel's Avatar


mArchangel
02.19.2012 , 09:29 AM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by loendar View Post
kudos on reading 1/5th of the available information on the thread and pretending to know what is being discussed and the viable alternatives that have been offered.

I will take your heartfelt 'l2p' and suggest that you 'l2read' and 'l2understand'.
priceless! :d
'If all children would mature according to early indications, the world would be full of geniuses.' - J.W. v.Goethe

hillltrot's Avatar


hillltrot
02.19.2012 , 10:22 AM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Hardly.

EQ1, EQ2, LotR, Rift, DDO, Vanguard, STO, DCUO, UO - the ONLY thing I haven't played is WoW and given the mentality and narrowmindedness of those I see here I'm thankful for that.

You know what the vast majority of those above don't do? Hard enrage timers on every encounter. SWTOR and WoW are the exception in taking that route, not the mainstream.

Just because WoW is the McDonald's of the MMO world doesn't make their implementation the best or even second best.
Nuts

If you haven't played WoW, you can't claim knowledge of MMOs in general. It's so incredibly stupid to do so, it's not stupid, it's insane.

WoW is not played because it got lucky, used Jedi mind control tricks, used a movie franchise as a base, or is completely free. They haven't lowered prices once!

Yet they pull in millions! If you haven't played WoW, you can't speak about having a broad knowledge of MMOs. All you know is what failed! And yes, you just listed a bunch of MMOs on life support in comparison to WoW! Yes, Vanguard made money, but how many servers do they have now? Did WoW players swamp their game? No, WoW is still in millions of active subscriptions. You can't say that this is because people are afraid of losing their characters. Blizzard will keep the Toon stats alive for decades without subscription.

Their story isn't that great, it's the gameplay which gets people to repeatedly play their game. All of the other games you listed are niche.

"I've used Commodore 64, Atari, Apple II, OS/2, Next, System/360, and System/370 operating systems. I've never used Windows or DOS, and given the mentality and narrowmindedness of those I see here I'm thankful for that!"


NUTS!

Frozenshiva's Avatar


Frozenshiva
02.19.2012 , 11:48 AM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by mArchangel View Post
I don't think you understand anything. And as for your condescending 'dyslexic' (so sorry, but if you would type in my language you probably would make a lot more mistakes, IF you actually understand anything but YOUR language.)this is just outright ridiculous. So this is not about insulting anyone but about defending when I get insulted as to the typical L2P BS. So leave this all how it is and don't state things that are untrue. I don't explode in someone's face because they do not agree with me but because they directly or indirectly attack or insult me or friends that are more than capable of playing this game according to it's rules. So you can go and shove it up yours. This is about fun and not frustration. This has NOTHING to do with easy loot. And just because I have not posted here in a while does not mean that cannot voice my opinion any time. And you Missy, better stop talking trash and comment on facts. The mechanic as is promotes only a punishment component and not a positively motivational challenge. Although this concept seems to challenging for most including yourself.
English is my third language FYI, but like you just said ,it's VERY easy to assume things you don't know. I wasn't complaining about your language skills. I was complaining about your so called maturity. You use words you can't type and don't even spell-check your post at the end. It's easy to consider yourself good without trying to improve. I'm not perfect either, i make mistakes too, but i strive to improve. That's the difference between you and me.

Back to the topic however.
Using "FUN" as a grading scale is foolish. Fun is SUBJECTIVE. As is difficulty and challenge in this case.
When it comes to MMO's FUN, DIFFICULT and CHALLENGING are determined by the majority and NOT the minority.
It's painful and annoying to understand and admit, but its the truth.

As i already said a dozen times over in this topic. I agree with you on the fact that fights could use more mechanics. I never once contested that. However using the same ignorant speech, about enrages being poor design, is childish to say the least.

That is my issue with you and Loendar. You two are both unwilling and incapable of understanding and compromising on the matter. Your knowledge in game design, let alone MMO design is utterly lackluster, which is completely understandable since you two more than likely don't work in this department or in the industry altogether.
I have no issue with people being uninformed or stating their opinions. Uninformed ignorant people who pass their opinions as facts is a whole other matter however.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.19.2012 , 05:40 PM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by hillltrot View Post
Nuts

If you haven't played WoW, you can't claim knowledge of MMOs in general. It's so incredibly stupid to do so, it's not stupid, it's insane.

WoW is not played because it got lucky, used Jedi mind control tricks, used a movie franchise as a base, or is completely free. They haven't lowered prices once!

Yet they pull in millions! If you haven't played WoW, you can't speak about having a broad knowledge of MMOs. All you know is what failed! And yes, you just listed a bunch of MMOs on life support in comparison to WoW! Yes, Vanguard made money, but how many servers do they have now? Did WoW players swamp their game? No, WoW is still in millions of active subscriptions. You can't say that this is because people are afraid of losing their characters. Blizzard will keep the Toon stats alive for decades without subscription.

Their story isn't that great, it's the gameplay which gets people to repeatedly play their game. All of the other games you listed are niche.

"I've used Commodore 64, Atari, Apple II, OS/2, Next, System/360, and System/370 operating systems. I've never used Windows or DOS, and given the mentality and narrowmindedness of those I see here I'm thankful for that!"


NUTS!
I guess I should have been more specific. I played WoW for about 3 hours during a trial. It took only that long for me to figure out that it wasn't anything new and, in fact, did a lot of things wrong. The fact that I got a quest and then ran to the spawn spot along with 50 other people for my chance to try and hit it first was enough to show me what a cluster it was likely to be.

You don't have to play WoW to know a good MMO. One could accurately argue that playing WoW would show you a bad one and the least common denominator. It is SO popular because it appeals to the masses, plain and simple. And appealing to the masses doesn't make it good, it makes it cookie cutter and low threshold for entry. Good for you that you enjoy playing Mc-WoW - I expect more from my games as I have detailed in this thread.

WoW is NOT God's gift to the MMO arena - it dumbed the entire genre down and sadly made people like yourself who think they have the slightest idea of what makes a failed MMO. Quantity != quality.. anyone with a first grade education knows that and just because 5 million (or whatever today's number is) people play WoW doesn't make it good.

We have entire segments of the population that believe in things (Aliens, Bigfoot, organized Religion) that enters into the billions and that doesn't automatically make them right etiher. ;p

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.19.2012 , 05:42 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Frozenshiva View Post
That is my issue with you and Loendar. You two are both unwilling and incapable of understanding and compromising on the matter. Your knowledge in game design, let alone MMO design is utterly lackluster, which is completely understandable since you two more than likely don't work in this department or in the industry altogether.
I have no issue with people being uninformed or stating their opinions. Uninformed ignorant people who pass their opinions as facts is a whole other matter however.
It's easy to say that when we are the only ones compromising. Why does every HM encounter have to have a hard enrage timer? That isn't compromising. Make it the exception - or make something that ACTUALLY makes the encounter harder - but anything.

You aren't arguing for compromise, you are and have been arguing for leaving things the way they are.

mArchangel's Avatar


mArchangel
02.20.2012 , 03:44 AM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by Frozenshiva View Post
English is my third language FYI, but like you just said ,it's VERY easy to assume things you don't know. I wasn't complaining about your language skills. I was complaining about your so called maturity. You use words you can't type and don't even spell-check your post at the end. It's easy to consider yourself good without trying to improve. I'm not perfect either, i make mistakes too, but i strive to improve. That's the difference between you and me.

Back to the topic however.
Using "FUN" as a grading scale is foolish. Fun is SUBJECTIVE. As is difficulty and challenge in this case.
When it comes to MMO's FUN, DIFFICULT and CHALLENGING are determined by the majority and NOT the minority.
It's painful and annoying to understand and admit, but its the truth.

As i already said a dozen times over in this topic. I agree with you on the fact that fights could use more mechanics. I never once contested that. However using the same ignorant speech, about enrages being poor design, is childish to say the least.

That is my issue with you and Loendar. You two are both unwilling and incapable of understanding and compromising on the matter. Your knowledge in game design, let alone MMO design is utterly lackluster, which is completely understandable since you two more than likely don't work in this department or in the industry altogether.
I have no issue with people being uninformed or stating their opinions. Uninformed ignorant people who pass their opinions as facts is a whole other matter however.
Sigh.....yeah I guess we do indeed know what is the difference between you and me. I stand up for my opinion and voice it here just to be flamed by people like you, THAT STILL don't understand what this is about. I am not per se stating Enrage should be removed or whatever you think. IT NEEDS TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Secondly another difference between you and me is that you BELIEVE to belong to majority and as such use this lobby-ism to manifest your argument. This is a typical sign of a conservative and status quo holding attitude and thus inherently preventative towards progress. Stating you strife to be better is therefore a very empty claim and nothing but a way of swaying an opinion poll without any real factual argument. Politicians do this a lot. You really have what it takes it would appear.
It would also appear, given my latest observations, that a vast amount of players have left the game (for good!?). Our guild recently lost quite a few upstarts (mid to high 40 levels) as they started to run into issues with the replica creating boss in Directive 7, which now not only glitches on trooper creations, but on Rep side actually produces swarms of Marauders. Wow, glitchy much? I laughed about it, when it happened, but some guildies felt they could not progress because of the glitches in FPs like Directive 7 or others (BH fight in False Emperor etc.) and cancelled their subs. I don't blame them.
So NOW we are coming to the real question here: Do you think with the overall bugged environments in FP and OPS (Soa is still a disaster for example, fun but buggy as hell)it is a good idea to have enrage basically wiping a group? Don't you think we should come to a point where we all agree , that a fresh idea is needed to make this all less frustrating and more fun? I am talking the most basic lowest common denominator of fun here.

Finally let me say, that unlike you I do not talk about your maturity here as you clearly showed us all about it.
'If all children would mature according to early indications, the world would be full of geniuses.' - J.W. v.Goethe

AlyII's Avatar


AlyII
02.20.2012 , 06:47 AM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
It's easy to say that when we are the only ones compromising. Why does every HM encounter have to have a hard enrage timer? That isn't compromising. Make it the exception - or make something that ACTUALLY makes the encounter harder - but anything.

You aren't arguing for compromise, you are and have been arguing for leaving things the way they are.
Totally agree!

AlyII's Avatar


AlyII
02.20.2012 , 06:55 AM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by mArchangel View Post
Sigh.....yeah I guess we do indeed know what is the difference between you and me. I stand up for my opinion and voice it here just to be flamed by people like you, THAT STILL don't understand what this is about. I am not per se stating Enrage should be removed or whatever you think. IT NEEDS TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Secondly another difference between you and me is that you BELIEVE to belong to majority and as such use this lobby-ism to manifest your argument. This is a typical sign of a conservative and status quo holding attitude and thus inherently preventative towards progress. Stating you strife to be better is therefore a very empty claim and nothing but a way of swaying an opinion poll without any real factual argument. Politicians do this a lot. You really have what it takes it would appear.
It would also appear, given my latest observations, that a vast amount of players have left the game (for good!?). Our guild recently lost quite a few upstarts (mid to high 40 levels) as they started to run into issues with the replica creating boss in Directive 7, which now not only glitches on trooper creations, but on Rep side actually produces swarms of Marauders. Wow, glitchy much? I laughed about it, when it happened, but some guildies felt they could not progress because of the glitches in FPs like Directive 7 or others (BH fight in False Emperor etc.) and cancelled their subs. I don't blame them.
So NOW we are coming to the real question here: Do you think with the overall bugged environments in FP and OPS (Soa is still a disaster for example, fun but buggy as hell)it is a good idea to have enrage basically wiping a group? Don't you think we should come to a point where we all agree , that a fresh idea is needed to make this all less frustrating and more fun? I am talking the most basic lowest common denominator of fun here.

Finally let me say, that unlike you I do not talk about your maturity here as you clearly showed us all about it.

It couldn't have been said better than this!!!