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Hardmode bosses need mechanics not unfairness


Baconmonster's Avatar


Baconmonster
02.15.2012 , 04:27 PM | #421
Enrage timer lets me hold scrubby dps accountable for poor performance. Sorry but I love the enrage timer. DPS can't coast by and simply go through the motions during fights anymore? Great.

It's not like any of these fights are difficult anyway. I mean Mentor is the most complex/fun fight in this game to me and it's in a 4 man FP, and while it is well designed it's still not that difficult. Once the fights actually become difficult to even reach the enrage timer then you can complain about tight enrage timers.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against new mechanics being introduced before an enrage timer, but with the difficulty of current content, why don't we just add those mechanics in for the entire fight. Sorry, but complaining about the enrage timers on this content is just beyond me. If it is good, technique driven content on the vast majority of ops bosses I wouldn't be on nightmare level content in my third week as 50.

Zallan's Avatar


Zallan
02.15.2012 , 04:31 PM | #422
Enrage timers place a greater importance on executing boss mechanics (as opposed to getting away with sloppy maneuvering) - I think that's a perfectly reasonable system for increasing difficulty.

What really needs to be removed are the countless amount of Ops bugs ranging from loot all the way to core mechanics.
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Aluo's Avatar


Aluo
02.15.2012 , 05:01 PM | #423
They are not enrage timers people. They are GEAR CHECKS!

Those of you crying about enrage timers fail to pull your heads out of your asses for 2 seconds to realize the only reason these timers are there is to GEAR CHECK YOU!.

If you could just walk through all the content with random crap gear then what fun would that be.

The entire point of the enrage timer is to force you to run content in an orderly fashion so you can overcome the fact your just flat out not that good.

Then you have guilds like mine that just flat out wont accept bad players.

That is how you get ***** done..... or I guess you could just waltz in here and cry like a little punk! yeah that is right.... I called you a PUNK!

IThrowRocks's Avatar


IThrowRocks
02.15.2012 , 05:04 PM | #424
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluo View Post
They are not enrage timers people. They are GEAR CHECKS!

Those of you crying about enrage timers fail to pull your heads out of your asses for 2 seconds to realize the only reason these timers are there is to GEAR CHECK YOU!.

If you could just walk through all the content with random crap gear then what fun would that be.

The entire point of the enrage timer is to force you to run content in an orderly fashion so you can overcome the fact your just flat out not that good.

Then you have guilds like mine that just flat out wont accept bad players.

That is how you get ***** done..... or I guess you could just waltz in here and cry like a little punk! yeah that is right.... I called you a PUNK!
Valid point but too narrow and close minded. Just because you have the gear you should have walking into an encounter doesn't mean the dps can slack and still hit the timer.

Relith's Avatar


Relith
02.15.2012 , 05:21 PM | #425
Quote: Originally Posted by Sir-Phobos View Post
To me enrage timers have been a lazy design choice made my developers who can't think of ways to make encounters challenging.

My first MMO and the one I played the longest was Everquest. I remember old raid encounters, from Naggy and Vox, to Trakanon and Venril Sathir, to Sontalak and others. None of these bosses "enraged", but the expectation was that you needed enough DPS to get them down as quick as humanly possible, otherwise large AOE DDs and AOE fear would completely overwhelm your healers and wipe your party. Other raids had timed adds, and if you couldn't get them down fast enough, your CC teams would start to get overwhelmed and you would probably wipe.

My point, in short, is that there are other ways to make content hard other than just saying "if you don't kill the boss in x amount of time, he starts hitting 10 times harder". Not to mention it just doesn't make sense, does the boss just think "this is taking too long, I need to start trying harder and get this over with"?

This is one of the few guys here who "gets it".

Dacce's Avatar


Dacce
02.15.2012 , 05:29 PM | #426
Quote: Originally Posted by ltankhsd View Post
The only HM boss that's routinely worked our butts has been the Sith Entity bonus boss in HM False Emperor. We're still building our gear up but geez when that final entity spawns he automatically enrages and kicks our butts.
The easiest thing is the keep everyone away from him except the tank until he does his big AOE burst that normally one shots people except the tank. Once that is done, blow cool downs and everyone can DPS him down.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.15.2012 , 05:46 PM | #427
Quote: Originally Posted by IThrowRocks View Post
I personally come back when I have off time at work. I don't shift through the countless responses of people who say that there is a better way to test dps without a timer. Nobody has actually said anything about what this magical mechanic is.

Any game that's worth a damn has some form of limiting its boss fight times. I've seen bosses that straight kill a player as part of the mechanic. Healers mana bars have acted like enrage bars. Add overwhelming acts as an enrage timer.

Its like you guys want the wheel to be reinvented. There are only so many things that can be done and honestly looking at a lot of the fights I feel that bioware has created a lot of fights that bring what people are asking for.


I've said this half a dozen times in this thread and none of you timer haters have adressed it because you can't.

Enrage timers are not a mechanic they are a standard.

If you want to cry about enrage timers being overused and boring then where is the thread saying threat tables and the tank and raid being hit by the boss are overused and unoriginal mechanics?


This game implements adds that need to be killed. It implements prison mechanics where a node needs to be dpsed. It implements smart dps where two bosses need to be downed in a very short time frame. It has others too but what do you people want? The game implements mechanics to challenge the dps and sets an overall standard for every given fight. The dps letting the fight go to enrage is equivalent to the healers letting the tank drop or the tank losing agro.


Edit:

And Loendar Im not too lazy to read the thread. Im just smart enough not to read "I don't like enrage timers" over and over where the only argument being made is "they can do something better"
Then you haven't read the thread. Other mechanics have been explained in detail in numerous posts, some with specific examples. I'm sorry that are unwilling to read them or because you don't like them feel they can be dismissed though they have been proven to work in other MMO's flawlessly.

There is nothing smart about responding to a thread by dismissing valid points made by others because you can't be bothered to read them.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.15.2012 , 05:48 PM | #428
Quote: Originally Posted by Baconmonster View Post
Enrage timer lets me hold scrubby dps accountable for poor performance. Sorry but I love the enrage timer. DPS can't coast by and simply go through the motions during fights anymore? Great.

It's not like any of these fights are difficult anyway. I mean Mentor is the most complex/fun fight in this game to me and it's in a 4 man FP, and while it is well designed it's still not that difficult. Once the fights actually become difficult to even reach the enrage timer then you can complain about tight enrage timers.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against new mechanics being introduced before an enrage timer, but with the difficulty of current content, why don't we just add those mechanics in for the entire fight. Sorry, but complaining about the enrage timers on this content is just beyond me. If it is good, technique driven content on the vast majority of ops bosses I wouldn't be on nightmare level content in my third week as 50.
All the while forcing the group dynamic of every fight to be tank/healer/dps/dps because that is the only way to avoid the timer. Anything possibility to form a group of your guild mates that don't meet the above criteria is more than likely to fail.

I, for one, take exception to being put in a box by a fail mechanic just so you can feel good about your DPS doing what they should be doing anyway.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.15.2012 , 05:51 PM | #429
Quote: Originally Posted by Aluo View Post
They are not enrage timers people. They are GEAR CHECKS!

Those of you crying about enrage timers fail to pull your heads out of your asses for 2 seconds to realize the only reason these timers are there is to GEAR CHECK YOU!.

If you could just walk through all the content with random crap gear then what fun would that be.

The entire point of the enrage timer is to force you to run content in an orderly fashion so you can overcome the fact your just flat out not that good.

Then you have guilds like mine that just flat out wont accept bad players.

That is how you get ***** done..... or I guess you could just waltz in here and cry like a little punk! yeah that is right.... I called you a PUNK!
Wrong. I have been in a group recently with a healer, two tanks and one DPS - all geared up appropriately and we were unable to get past the enrage timer on the final boss. It was the first time I have actually hit the enrage timer at all as I've been conforming to the Bioware default group composition up to this point.

So - if it were a GEAR CHECK as you say - I would be able to do it with top geared toons within reason. It is a DPS check - and a bad game limiting one.

Nobody has their head in their arse in this thread except those that are unwilling to see that there are merits to both sides of the discussion. One side just gives more options to the player base and one forces you to lose for not playing in the exact manner dictated by Bioware.

MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
02.15.2012 , 07:26 PM | #430
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
All the while forcing the group dynamic of every fight to be tank/healer/dps/dps because that is the only way to avoid the timer. Anything possibility to form a group of your guild mates that don't meet the above criteria is more than likely to fail.

I, for one, take exception to being put in a box by a fail mechanic just so you can feel good about your DPS doing what they should be doing anyway.
That's actually a good point. Also chances are your group needs to have at least 2 Sorcerer/Sages, 1 dps and 1 healer, because the other classes simply don't perform as well in the same roles. I'm sure it's possible with other classes but, lets say you bring a Juggernaut tank and 3 Sorcerers (2 DPS & 1 Healer) into a hardmode, you're going to destroy everything provided you know the strategy. Other class combinations might struggle.
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