Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Hardmode bosses need mechanics not unfairness


UnbreakableXVIII's Avatar


UnbreakableXVIII
02.02.2012 , 05:01 AM | #121
.....
ITS A TRAP!

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
02.02.2012 , 06:34 AM | #122
I have no problems with Enrage timer.

I have problems when Enrage timer (making the fight a DPS race) is the only mechanic they can come up with.

Make the fight healing intensive for example (an example is Karagga for this, we need a HM Flashpoint version)

Or make the fight especially hard on the tank (make it so you need to constantly move him on a certain pattern or make him so he stacks a debuff on you that will require someone to offtank him)

Or use the bonethrasher method, the guy will have no threat table so he'll randomly attack people.


There are other ways...

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.02.2012 , 07:36 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
I have no problems with Enrage timer.

I have problems when Enrage timer (making the fight a DPS race) is the only mechanic they can come up with.

Make the fight healing intensive for example (an example is Karagga for this, we need a HM Flashpoint version)

Or make the fight especially hard on the tank (make it so you need to constantly move him on a certain pattern or make him so he stacks a debuff on you that will require someone to offtank him)

Or use the bonethrasher method, the guy will have no threat table so he'll randomly attack people.


There are other ways...
Careful - I spent the better part of the day discussing such things as options to lazy design. You will soon be visited by someone attempting to convince you that every mechanic is an enrage timer (with solid WoWWiki articles in tow) and how stupid you are for seeing otherwise.

mArchangel's Avatar


mArchangel
02.02.2012 , 08:19 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Careful - I spent the better part of the day discussing such things as options to lazy design. You will soon be visited by someone attempting to convince you that every mechanic is an enrage timer (with solid WoWWiki articles in tow) and how stupid you are for seeing otherwise.
That gets to me too. What has all this WoW blah blah to do with SWTOR?

Love it when peeps that played WoW maybe since a couple of years and had everything handed to them(LFG system, easy epics, quick raiding ability etc.) come and tell TRUE MMO veterans how it is done LOL. Plus no WIKI is a reliable or distinguished form of proof at all as it is user based information. It's not researched nor backed. Gotta love that!
'If all children would mature according to early indications, the world would be full of geniuses.' - J.W. v.Goethe

flowqz's Avatar


flowqz
02.02.2012 , 08:24 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Enrage timers are a worthless and lazy way to design content in any game. Either I can kill the mob with my group, or I can't. Why should it matter how long it takes me to accomplish my goal? Dead is dead.
"than i would run 1tank 7healer ops cause dead is still dead lolz"

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.02.2012 , 08:29 AM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by flowqz View Post
"than i would run 1tank 7healer ops cause dead is still dead lolz"
No, you wouldn't. Because a properly designed encounter would have the mob healing itself at a rate that would preclude you from doing that.

You see - there are tons of ways to make an encounter viable without an enrage timer.

I very specific DPS threshold (not a timer) is just one of them.

This argument has been stated and restated and continues to be a fallacy.

If your group is capable of putting out the DPS required to down the encounter (7 healers or not) then you are entitled to do so. Build the encounter to your required thresholds and there are no problems.

Assigning a random time limit to something is lazy.

Crawfishies's Avatar


Crawfishies
02.02.2012 , 08:33 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Siltyn View Post
Without enrage timers, people would just setup groups based around a main tank, backup tank and a healing rotation and win by attrition...no matter how long the fight took....as long as you could outheal the damage the tank was taking. Nothing epic about that.

I prefer the fast and furious flurry of battle needed to burn a mob down before enrage...
I would assume that if there aren't any enrage timers, then
any raid, 8 man, 16 man, 40, man.
All you need would be an awesome tank, and heals,
all the dps can be fresh fresh 50's wearing Greens,
and boss will be downed.

Would you want that?

Konkeroar's Avatar


Konkeroar
02.02.2012 , 08:35 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by Loendar View Post
Not true. Our group is perfectly capable of killing the mob - it is down to 5 percent health, nobody is dying and everything is stable.

Suddenly some arbitrary 'timer' kicks in and decides that even though we have no issues with the mob we didn't kill him in 5 minutes so we suck. That is a stupid, arbitrary and ultimately worthless distinction that does nothing to enhance the game.
So you're down to 5% and then the enrage timer kicks in? Pop some tank CDs, pop some heal CDs and kill it.

I've seen bosses killed from 20% to dead after they enrage. You have tools to counter this if you absolutely need to. Use them.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.02.2012 , 08:45 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawfishies View Post
I would assume that if there aren't any enrage timers, then
any raid, 8 man, 16 man, 40, man.
All you need would be an awesome tank, and heals,
all the dps can be fresh fresh 50's wearing Greens,
and boss will be downed.

Would you want that?
Again - you would assume incorrectly.

There is nothing stopping the encounter from requiring specific DPS and HPS thresholds that have to be met to down the encounter. If your team doesn't match that spec then you can beat your head against the encounter all day long and never have a chance of downing it.

Enrage timers are taking crews that are beating the DPS/HPS thresholds that are set and putting them against a clock as well. And that is lazy.

Loendar's Avatar


Loendar
02.02.2012 , 08:47 AM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Konkeroar View Post
So you're down to 5% and then the enrage timer kicks in? Pop some tank CDs, pop some heal CDs and kill it.

I've seen bosses killed from 20% to dead after they enrage. You have tools to counter this if you absolutely need to. Use them.
I haven't personally hit an enrage timer in this game - I was basing them on the OP and others in this thread. Can you overcome them if you are on your toes? Sounds like it might be possible.

However, it is still a piss poor excuse to design a timer in that changes the entire level of the encounter simply because your DPS missed a cycle.