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Why are they killing hybrid builds???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Why are they killing hybrid builds???

Nethershadow's Avatar


Nethershadow
02.01.2012 , 09:58 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by sjeg View Post
Apparently they nerfed raze for darkness/madness hybrids too:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=258441

Pretty hefty for the not uncommon 23/0/18 or 23/2/16 build if you ask me.
When the majority of your points are in one tree, you should really be performing that tree as a hybrid role. So the specs you mention, you should be acting more like a OT than dps that gets the benefits of a tank.

Varcan's Avatar


Varcan
02.01.2012 , 10:19 AM | #22
If they make changes(aka hybrid nerfs), but make our freakin passive work(+25% base dmg to Project).

I'll sing songs and rejoice upon the BW name.

DarthNorik's Avatar


DarthNorik
02.01.2012 , 10:40 AM | #23
The changes haven't taken effect yet so itss not a nerf yet... I've been playing MMO's for a long time and one thing I hate is when they take away talent tree hybrids. As long as they perform on equal terms with the 31 point trees I don't see a problem. If they do perform above the 31 point trees then buff the 31 pointer. Choice should never be taken away from the player. One thing they could of done was just add more lightning charge synergy into madness to make it useful. Like say change deathmarks to increase damage of DOTS by 20% and restore 5 force everytime lightning charge procs. And then they could replace consume deathmark with a talent that increases the proc chance of lightning charges proc chance by 30%
Peace is a lie, rejected by all our natural instincts.

Kuvi's Avatar


Kuvi
02.01.2012 , 11:08 AM | #24
I've defended BW through most of their decisions, and such - but nerfing a play style
of a class that isn't overpowered is a bit ridiculous.

I see a lot of the arguments that are for the hybrid massacre movement that are more
PvE focused. The thing is, not everyone focuses on PvE. In PvP most of the better builds
were hybrid, and they were balanced.

This decision, in my eyes, is big enough to make me consider finding recreation elsewhere.
I believe that nerfs should be warranted by how strong a class is, not by how the developers
want to force their users to play that class.
[x] GENUFLECT

Exiled-Phoenix's Avatar


Exiled-Phoenix
02.01.2012 , 11:12 AM | #25
Bah i sometimes use dark charge as deception assassin so that i can tank and rely on healing companion and vol-slash + shock to do damage. cant use discharge because without surging its just a weak AoE debuff attack.

And so much for the great darkness/madness raze combo for pvp

Sabbathius's Avatar


Sabbathius
02.01.2012 , 11:23 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Invitcted View Post
All that aside you seem to be implying that BW should make every possible random allocation of talents not only function coherently but be equally optimal as proper build which if you knew about how hard it is to balance 8 unique classes in pve and pvp perfectly is impossible with only 'cookie cutter' builds let alone hybrids.
I don't think anyone is asking for random talents having synergy with each other or anything like that. But currently, each tree has junk talents in it. A lot of them. And they're fairly obvious.

When was the last time you saw someone SKIP Energize but take 3/3 Shroud of Darkness. When was the last time you saw someone skip Avoidtance, but max Recirculation instead? And when was the last time you saw take Oppressive Force but skip Torment? I've never seen it. Not once. Ever. Period.

Now, let me ask you, why are those talents there? Nobody will take them. I mean NOBODY in their right mind will take them! You have a limited number of points, and in every tier there's no-brainer skills that MUST be taken, and every tier has talents that can be skipped with no noticeable loss of...well...anything!

Now, instead of doing it that way, why not make all those talents worthwhile? That is, instead of the choice being obvious, where you are essentially being told "TAKE THIS!", and only given an ILLUSION of choice, why not actually give people the choice?

Balancing? Not good enough. You have a limited number of talent points, so you would have to make some choices, can't have everything. And as long as talents are well thought out, balancing shouldn't be an issue. Besides, the game balance right now is horribly broken anyway, even with the trees we have now.

I don't know. Call me old fashioned, but I like actual choice over an illusion of choice.

Wind_Chaser's Avatar


Wind_Chaser
02.01.2012 , 11:30 AM | #27
It's weird to me because why on earth would you change tooltips and not implement the actual changes...?

In essence you are braking your own game by not having the abilities do what they say they do. :P

Pushbutton's Avatar


Pushbutton
02.01.2012 , 12:40 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Arancor View Post
The talent tree design, which is obviously inspired by WoW, is imo the most stupid specialization design around....

...Imo, the best spec design in the MMO world is still that of Dark Age of Camelot...
Yes, yes, so much yes. I've been saying this since WoW came out. The DAoC system was incredible because two people of the same class would not have all of the same abilities at level 50 if they speced differently. The whole idea that every person that plays a certain class should get every ability available to that class in asinine. All classes are essentially copies of each other with the only difference being one may hit 5% harder while the next guy might proc a shield on a heal. Nothing unique there... Give my a DAoC style system... Or hell, think WAY out of the box and stick a Titan Quest style system into an MMO. Too bad Bliz has turned the entire world off MMO players into a bunch of morons who need to have everything layed out for them nice and easy or they just whine and ***** about every little f'n thing....

kainsec's Avatar


kainsec
02.01.2012 , 12:57 PM | #29
I believe the move against hybridization is bc it's easier to balance 3 viable builds with minor variations than our what 7 or 8 builds that we have come up with using hybrid specs.

That being said I am strongly against removing viability of hybrids. If anything BW should encourage hybrid play. I have always hated the tree system of speccing myself. It limits creativity

In a perfect world rather than talent trees I would make it so each ability can be specialized with talent points rather than a tree system revolving around a specific role you can build up the abilities you want to use for your playstyle rather than a predesigned spec and hope your personal style fits into it. For example you would go into the skill tree and have a picture of each ability say you click on shock, in the shock mini-tree you would have the option to put points into any talent that directly affects shock. Now you can put all your eggs in one basket and just have an uber shock but chances are you will be more successful modding a variety of abilities in your rotation. Finally there would be one symbol for new abilities these abilities could be unlocked if you had spent x amount of points modding a specific ability. Say for dark ward it would in this scenario require you spend x points modding dark charge before you can take it. That would exist solely to prevent everyone from having all the speccable abilities.

However, the world is not perfect so all we can do is wait for the patch that might change the abilities to go to PTS log on test them and protest.
level 50 Sith Assassin
level 50 Mara
Member of Shadow Empire

DarthNorik's Avatar


DarthNorik
02.01.2012 , 01:04 PM | #30
In a perfect world there would be utility specs that are as good at doing utility as a dps spec is as good at doing dps. That you could go 15/15/11 and do the same amount of damage as 5/5/31, but have a different playstyle. Thats the world I want to live in. It seems bioware wants me to live in a world where I can play 1 of 3 builds and my only real choice is do I want an extra pve utility talent or one extra pvp talent... Yay...
Peace is a lie, rejected by all our natural instincts.