Gear based PvP is amateur hour

Actually such a game does exist already... hint: they aren't MMOs.

MMOs are generally grind-based games. DAOC and few others actually did anything different about that and in the developers' minds it was bad because it left people nothing to grind for, which retains subscriptions.

However, play a game like DOTA or League of Legends where matches are skill-based and gear/wealth/xp are reset every game and you get exactly what you're asking for. It's just not something an MMO would ever do (except WoW with the whole arena gear thing... yeah that was fail).

15% increase in damage/damage reduction/healing is a pretty good increase. Considering 8 players in a match is 120% team damage increase/reduction/healing vs often maybe 30% team damage/reduction/healing.

Considering SW:TOR adopted WoWs pvp system, perhaps you are just too fond of WoW to want a fair match /shrug.

They evolved with the systems as they changed. You did not.

The same could be said of PvE players. They used to be pen and paper role players, who never focused on getting "gear" as the entire point of the system was to role play, gain levels, and simply act out a fantasy setting.

Are raiders doing it wrong because they want gear? No, they are not, they evolved with the systems. It's a MMO, you need a carrot on a stick, "fun" just isn't enough when every other activity provides a "reward".

^This.
SC2 in Korea, Canada, USA, and several others would like a word with him LOL!

And before anyone says "They don't show SC2 tournaments on TV anywhere other than Korea"... It's called G4TV people.
Also, most of the MILLIONS of people who follow and watch SC2 don't watch much TV. They stream.
These streams are (more often than not) syndicated and sponsored...

Yeah... Holy cow! Watching TV on the internet?! What is this? The 21st Century or something?

This post brings a tear to my eye. No really it does.

*I* don't need a carrot, I just need fun. Apparently MMORPGs aren't for me anymore because I can't find one that is skill-based and based on FUN, not job-like gear grinds that serve as a gateway to "future fun... once you get geared.... eventually".

Fun isn't enough? Really....? I don't even know how to respond to that. Maybe I need to stop playing video games and find another hobby....


(edit: I'm talking about PVP here)

It's a problem when your 10-49 bracket is regarded by many people as much better than your 50 bracket.

Is there progression in the 10-49 bracket? Yes. Is it relatively (not really...but moreso than the 50 bracket) well balanced? I guess so.


But once again, I think gear (aka time spent) SHOULD give an advantage.....just not as large as an advantage. 10% more health (or something like that) would be a fairly large advantage in PvP without being game breaking. It becomes game breaking when you have almost double the health, while also dealing double the damage and getting double the healing, etc.

I can not remember one time when I was in the military were I switched from PVE to PVP gear.

Now a days its all about the fluff. There is no substance to MMO PVP these days.

Think about it- if you're skill based rather than progression based- you have 10-49 where you can live out that fantasy- those that prefer the progression aspect can do that at 50.

I never hinted that people wouldn't pay for a p2p game that has no progression in pvp. People said that there was proof that people would pay for a p2p game with no progression- then bring up games that aren't p2p, and aren't mmorpgs.


People pay for an mmo like TOR because, yes, it has multiple things. It has the best levelling system in an mmo yet- with some effort put into it for the first time. It has an endgame- hardmodes and operations from day one, with more already added, and more coming in march- so the content is not coming slowly (slowly only for those who've played 15 hours a day)- it took me til last week to just hit 50, and I play more than most casuals.

The pvp from 10-49 is great, some of the best current pvp I've played- tanking, healing and dps work well together, teamwork is rewarded, and huttball's unique in design. You gotta get over a gear hump at 50 again- but, a- if you're not into progression, just reroll, you can enjoy the pvp you like after a couple hours of starter zone no problem. b- it is the smallest gear hump hurdle I've seen in an mmorpg, the only real issue being the randomness.

I don't see reason to complain about the system- when I can just play a non-50, and since levelling is fun I don't mind having alts- cuz I can play the gear game or the skill game depending on who I'm playing... really, it's the best of both worlds.

No it's not.

MANY people (hunters) regard the 10-19 bracket in WoW as being better than 85. Does that mean they have a problem? No.

MANY people (rogues) think the 20-29 bracket is better than 85. Is 85 pvp dying because of it? No.

I am not concerned that a lot of people that haven't hit 50 yet (and some that have) and a lot of people that don't PvP very much (and a few that do) don't like the 50 bracket.

No. It's not a problem.

Do that analysis again, but replace WoW with Rift.