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Misogny in the Old Republic. (Minor spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Misogny in the Old Republic. (Minor spoilers)

Spinks's Avatar


Spinks
02.01.2012 , 12:52 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post

Anyway, that's all I got for now. I'm all for anyone who can counter this stuff with an example of a strong woman who isn't Satele Shan
Any of the female player characters :P My sith warrior is a strong woman. Also can't remember her name but the female general who directs you in the bonus quests on Belsavis (and there are comments in the dialogue about how unusual it is for a woman to be in that role, so yes, they're mysogynistic.)

gaskull's Avatar


gaskull
02.01.2012 , 01:43 AM | #12
As for the rest you are playing Empire.

Empire = All strong main characters = male = and Human for the most part.

The Empire is not a what you would call a good example of real characters. It's a very fascism based society.

The Republic has more strong and better female leads like Satele Shan and General Garza and allot more strong alien leads too.[/QUOTE]

sorry mate, but you dont make much sense
THE-KĀLI-CLAN/LEGACY
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Kanubis's Avatar


Kanubis
02.01.2012 , 06:37 AM | #13
- General Garza - if she's married, it's definitely the husband who stays home and cooks the dinner...

- Yuon Par (ok she gets 'helpless' for a while but only in the same way far more male jedi do.)

- The Twi'lek woman overseeing the rebuilding on Taris. Very strong and determined leadership.

- Some general's daughter on Alderaan - interestingly he tries to subdue her to a weak female role but she's having none of it.

- Some other Alederaanian general's quite elderly aunt - still kicking it up deep in enemy territory despite her age.

- The Voss military woman who appears in a lot of the JK Voss story.

These all leapt to mind straight away, so I'm sure there's more.

But yeah, all Republic side. Your side is overtly xenophobic, so I'm surprised that a little misogyny is bothering you!

Karaiblis's Avatar


Karaiblis
02.01.2012 , 12:57 PM | #14
Vette is strong and capable, she has a shock color on because she's a SLAVE, and while you can break her if you don't remove it, you lose most interaction with her rather than gaining anything. You can not win her affection if you don't stop treating her as a slave, and you can't win her bed without commitment, she sticks to her personal ideals despite whatever situation life has placed her in, I do not see her as a fail in the female character strength department.

As for the others, your sense of female 'self worth' seems to be tied to lack of desire, or at least repression of expressing any. You think Thana is strong because she did not flirt, but you admit your character continually flirted with her, does this mean your character has no self worth?
Passion Strength Power Victory Freedom
Kovrai · Ebon Hawk · Rysari

Cythereal's Avatar


Cythereal
02.01.2012 , 01:07 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Spinks View Post
Any of the female player characters :P My sith warrior is a strong woman. Also can't remember her name but the female general who directs you in the bonus quests on Belsavis (and there are comments in the dialogue about how unusual it is for a woman to be in that role, so yes, they're mysogynistic.)
There's also a very sexist Imperial officer on Quesh. My female Sith warrior appreciated that he had the guts to say a woman had no place on the battlefield to a woman who also happened to be a Sith Lord before she force choked him.
"That which furthers our purpose is authorized." - Imperial Intelligence, Field Operations Division motto

AscendantOps's Avatar


AscendantOps
02.01.2012 , 01:35 PM | #16
Quote:
Any of the female player characters :P My sith warrior is a strong woman. Also can't remember her name but the female general who directs you in the bonus quests on Belsavis (and there are comments in the dialogue about how unusual it is for a woman to be in that role, so yes, they're mysogynistic.)
Canonically, the Sith Empire is an institution of humanocentric chauvinism. I don't know if Bioware did that on purpose, whether their male staff is misogynistic, whether that was inspired by similar policies practiced by the Galactic Empire in the original movies or something else.

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
02.01.2012 , 02:16 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Karaiblis View Post
Vette is strong and capable, she has a shock color on because she's a SLAVE, and while you can break her if you don't remove it, you lose most interaction with her rather than gaining anything. You can not win her affection if you don't stop treating her as a slave, and you can't win her bed without commitment, she sticks to her personal ideals despite whatever situation life has placed her in, I do not see her as a fail in the female character strength department.

As for the others, your sense of female 'self worth' seems to be tied to lack of desire, or at least repression of expressing any. You think Thana is strong because she did not flirt, but you admit your character continually flirted with her, does this mean your character has no self worth?
Actually, I think Thana is a strong person because she's very self-assertive, and focused. Vette is neither of these things. You're the one going on about 'winning beds' and 'desire' as though that were the only purpose of having female characters in the game, Freud.

Karaiblis's Avatar


Karaiblis
02.01.2012 , 02:38 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
You're the one going on about 'winning beds' and 'desire' as though that were the only purpose....
Again, you seem to go on the offensive only for the things involving sexual conduct in females. Fine, I would call that "very self-assertive, and focused" as you say. Take a look at the Sith Vaverene(sp), who becomes Darth Alluress in the Smuggler story line, for an example of a female with strong self-worth in the game; she expects to rule the Empire.

I think Thana is kind of weak personally; she has little ability to think rationally, rashly rushes into situations she shouldn't, betrays readily, can not accept the consequences her own actions lead her into, and blames others for her failures as well as claiming credit for victories she hasn't achieved. The storyline may toss her around a bit as you suggested, but she brings a majority of it upon herself, and it has nothing to do with whether she flirts or not.
Passion Strength Power Victory Freedom
Kovrai · Ebon Hawk · Rysari

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
02.01.2012 , 03:14 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Karaiblis View Post
Again, you seem to go on the offensive only for the things involving sexual conduct in females.
uh, yeah? Because it's obnoxiously prevalent?

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
02.01.2012 , 03:35 PM | #20
So, you think a female character should be sexually repressed and unwilling to have sex ever?

-Now- who's being misogynistic?


There are multiple levels of misogyny that are present in writing, in life. You've displayed an excellent vision of misogyny that is rarely called upon, and that is the use of defending it but offering up an incorrect view on top of that. A strong female character doesn't have to be independent, never giving into flirts, etc. That is seen as an ideal vision by many claiming for strong characters, but that's really only one example. Going to break it down to show you why.

Vette: I haven't seen dialogue with her if the collar is left on, but without the collar her dialogue has been interesting. She knows your character is a Sith Lord, and yet she continues with the witticism, sarcastic remarks, etc. She's challenging your Sith, even though while playfully, as if she doesn't care that she could get Force Choked for no reason.

So we have a female character who is witty, sarcastic, young (I think she's only... 18?), unafraid to challenge authority and unafraid of the outcome. But she's weak because she's a slave? Then the Sith Inquisitor is weak for being a former slave! Khem Val is weak because he refers to himself repeatedly as a slave! And I think we can all agree Khem Val is by no means 'weak'.

Thana Vesh: I'm not really sure where you stood with her... but suffice to say, her incompetence wasn't because she's a woman. Her Master even explains that it had to do with the fact she was too headstrong and willful. To put it simply, she was very powerful but she overestimated her power.

She was captured and defeated so many times for the sheer fact she believed she could do things she wasn't ready to do. But hell, it shows a level of skill on her part for the fact she managed to escape her cell after I left her there in a 'time-out'.

Jaesa: So a woman isn't allowed to have sexual appetites that have her experiencing new feelings and forms of pleasure she had been formerly not been allowed to experience? She can't be willing to serve her Master faithfully by actually caring about their well being and knowing that it is more important for them to live than her? By the time we're on Voss, Jaesa realizes that she is second fiddle to the Wrath. She knows that she is important to the Wrath for her power, but that overall it is the Wrath who is the most important person amongst the group.

So she gives of herself willingly to allow the Wrath to live longer, naturally, to fulfill the more important duties in the galaxy.

Lachriss: It's comments from -players-. That's an argument killer there.
"The Force will set me free!"
Darth Tybek Maar, Wraith of Taris
Wraith (The Story of Tybek) - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246582