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Misogny in the Old Republic. (Minor spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Misogny in the Old Republic. (Minor spoilers)

sanctified's Avatar


sanctified
01.31.2012 , 05:36 PM | #1
I'm a dude. I like dude stuff. I like loud explosions in my movies, hot chicks who make out with each other, and ninjitsu. I really enjoy TOR even though it only provides 2/3 of the things I enjoy about popular entertainment, because it's still pretty fun. I dig the sword fighting, the acting, and the narrative. Though one thing that has been really bumming me out lately is the slight (heavy!) undercurrent of misogyny. Sith Warrior run, your mileage may vary.

Take Vette: A sarcastic personality who is really capable in a fight. Now put a slave collar on her and shock her whenever you feel like it. Sure, you can take the collar off her later if you choose, but the fact remains, she ain't an equal. She starts on the bottom rung, and pretty much stays there for the whole run.

Thana Vesh: She's a strong Sith warrior. But she's constantly falling into traps, getting knocked out, and generally in need of a rescue. You know what I liked about her? I flirted with her constantly, and she was not having it! Strong sense of self-worth, very cool. Constantly undermined by plot devices designed to make her look bad at every available opportunity. Compare and contrast with Lord Draag, who never looked like anything less than a threat to your life.

Jaesa Williamson: There's a quest on Voss where you are given the option to force one of your companions to sacrifice a portion of their life energy to proceed to the next area. Most of your companions will give you a -1 affection for forcing them to do this. Jaesa gives you +34 affection. Do you know what she says? "I cannot resist your will, Master." I'm sorry, but that is ****ed up. This girl has all that power and is a very capable fighter magnitudes above the aforementioned Thana Vesh. So, to balance the scales, the writers turned her into a sadomasochistic sex kitten. Strong women are not like that. They have a sense of self-worth that goes beyond giving empowerment fantasies to keyboard clickers. Good god.

Darth Lachriss. She's in charge of an entire planet. You see right from her first introduction that she's a killer. She's cultured, she's intelligent. She's actually pretty cool. This one is on the player base. Because she's a romance option for any class of male players, She is immediately dragged down in general chat as a wh-re, a door knob, a skank. She kind of exposes people for what they're really like, man. It's really surprising the reactions she gets from other players. And more than a little disgusting.

Anyway, that's all I got for now. I'm all for anyone who can counter this stuff with an example of a strong woman who isn't Satele Shan, who apparently felt the need to get it on with some random guy and have a son, thus being the first Grandmaster in the Jedi order who couldn't actually live by the guidelines of the order at the time on account of being a weak female who needed a man to feel good about herself.

AngelousWang's Avatar


AngelousWang
01.31.2012 , 05:52 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Jaesa Williamson: There's a quest on Voss where you are given the option to force one of your companions to sacrifice a portion of their life energy to proceed to the next area. Most of your companions will give you a -1 affection for forcing them to do this. Jaesa gives you +34 affection. Do you know what she says? "I cannot resist your will, Master." I'm sorry, but that is ****ed up. This girl has all that power and is a very capable fighter magnitudes above the aforementioned Thana Vesh. So, to balance the scales, the writers turned her into a sadomasochistic sex kitten. Strong women are not like that. They have a sense of self-worth that goes beyond giving empowerment fantasies to keyboard clickers. Good god.
Jaesa has two complete opposite personalities depending on whether she Light or Dark, the "sadomasochistic sex kitten" only happens if you make her go Dark. If she's Light she won't even romance you shes that independently strong.

As for the rest you are playing Empire.

Empire = All strong main characters = male = and Human for the most part.

The Empire is not a what you would call a good example of real characters. It's a very fascism based society.

The Republic has more strong and better female leads like Satele Shan and General Garza and allot more strong alien leads too.
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Pubsam's Avatar


Pubsam
01.31.2012 , 06:41 PM | #3
This isn't really a SWTOR or Bioware problem so much as a dearth of legitimately strong female characters anywhere ever.

Stars Wars is a mostly sexist universe though so I'm gonna say Bioware's scoring decently.

http://www.cracked.com/video_18249_w...ing-women.html
Time for a nap.

Mechavomit's Avatar


Mechavomit
01.31.2012 , 06:59 PM | #4
Quote:
Jaesa Williamson
This.

That is all.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.31.2012 , 07:38 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Anyway, that's all I got for now. I'm all for anyone who can counter this stuff with an example of a strong woman who isn't Satele Shan, who apparently felt the need to get it on with some random guy and have a son, thus being the first Grandmaster in the Jedi order who couldn't actually live by the guidelines of the order at the time on account of being a weak female who needed a man to feel good about herself.
- Kalyo. (Haven't played Agent that much so it's only by first look.)

- Lady Grathan (I guess you killed her. If you let her live, she uses you to kill her husband and becomes de-facto-leader of House Grathan, controlling her son who is officially in charge.)

- General Geselle (yes, you can break her if you force-choke her lover, but this would also break a man, I think.)

-Yadira Ban (Black Talon Padawan)

I have encountered some more with my Jedi Consular.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Luckmann's Avatar


Luckmann
01.31.2012 , 07:39 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelousWang View Post
[...]

The Empire is not a what you would call a good example of real characters. It's a very fascism based society.

[...]
What does fascism have to do with misogyny and "not good examples of real characters"?

Are fascists suddenly not real people?
Are we going to pretend that fascism is misogynistic?

What the hell?
Bevier, Knight of the EmpireLord Calypso, EU RP-PvP
WTB Jedi Battlelord's Chestguard, Greaves, Boots & Handgear.

SnakeAes's Avatar


SnakeAes
01.31.2012 , 07:46 PM | #7
The Empire has crooked morals!

Join the Republic!
«勝兵先勝而後求戰,敗兵先戰而後求勝。»
"Victorious warriors win first, then go to war; defeated warriors go to war first, then seek to win." - The Art of War

Diamonddug's Avatar


Diamonddug
01.31.2012 , 08:00 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctified View Post
Anyway, that's all I got for now. I'm all for anyone who can counter this stuff with an example of a strong woman who isn't Satele Shan, who apparently felt the need to get it on with some random guy and have a son, thus being the first Grandmaster in the Jedi order who couldn't actually live by the guidelines of the order at the time on account of being a weak female who needed a man to feel good about herself.
Ok first Vett: Yes she is good as a dps but she is a non force using alien. In the empire it doesn't matter if it is a female or male those two items make Vett the bottom of the socety not her sex.

Next Thana Vesh: Some of what you said I have to agree with but some I must disagree with. First she is a powerful force user burning down a whole city block with the force is nothing to sneeze at but what
happens to her on Taris is suppose to make you either hate her or feel sorry for her. Lets put Thana as a man instead of a woman sith. He kills his paremts and becomes Darth Gravus appentance. Everytime you meet him he
tryes to take credit for things you have done, women flirt with him and he shuns them and everytime he tries to do things on his own he ends up locked up knocked out or tied up. He would be a weak Sith and you would either
feel sorry for him or hate him and want to kill him. Its not male or female sexism Just a weak sith.

Then there is Jaesa Williamson: The ""I cannot resist your will, Master." Is the same if you are a male or female SW so it is more the whole master/appintice thing than anything else. Plus she could be paying you lip service until the
time she decides to shove a light saber in your back.

Darth Lachriss is only being dissed by the player base so not really the writers fault on that one.

Finally Lady Grathan (I guess you killed her. If you let her live, she uses you to kill her husband and becomes de-facto-leader of House Grathan, controlling her son who is officially in charge.)

While yes she becomes a strong ruler and is then power behind her son but she also has flirt option that lets you have sex with her while Vett watches so um that a kiinda a mess up the but w/e your a sith.
Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Though passion I gain strength. Though strength I gain power.
Though power I gain victory.
In victory my chains are broken.

TheLonelyTusken's Avatar


TheLonelyTusken
01.31.2012 , 08:33 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mechavomit View Post
This.

That is all.
How did I not notice that, lol.

Zilrota's Avatar


Zilrota
02.01.2012 , 12:03 AM | #10
Hello all,

We've removed a number of posts from this thread and would like to remind everyone of the rules of conduct in the forums. Particularly those dealing with inappropriate content.

We ask that you please make a strong effort to keep your discussion centered around in game story and lore. We understand that it is difficult to have a discussion such as this without bringing real life comparisons into it, but discussions of real world politics, religion and racial topics are not appropriate and inherently volatile.

Please do your best to keep the thread on topic, constructive and appropriate.

Thank you.