Remember when MMO's were worlds not games

And I would disagree with your disagreement.

There is no grind, as there is no way to get skills faster by doing something. It just happens. There is no "XP" for killing x mobs or retrieving x items. your skills simply grow with time, 24/7/365. Nothing you can do changes that. That is the exact opposite of a "grind" by its definition.

Additionally, you do not have to grind money or missions, as you stated. You can buy PLEX for isk if you want, which is hardly a "grind" (although if you choose to do missions for a faction or be a mission runner in general, it does feel like a grind sometimes) But missions are entirely optional, like everything else, and I would say most people don't do them very much.

And there is no endgame. There is no max level content. You are useful to even the most powerful corps in a frigate that can tackle in less than a week from creating an account.

Also, I think EVE launched in 2003, which should qualify it as an old school mmo.

Anyone saying old MMOs had no grind is either a liar or under 14...

Nope. "Grind" is the act of leveling. It doesn't make a difference whether it's killing, questing, or waiting. In this case, the grind is waiting.


Yeah, you do. Getting isk involves grinding (mining, salvaging, missions, etc). Doing missions for faction is grinding.


Yeah, there is. There are max tiers of ships and that's your endgame. Now, if you're trying to say there's no Raiding... then you would be correct. It's much more geared towards PvP than PvE.


But you missed the point as well. Even if the point was granted that EVE was an exception (I still don't)... that's ONE MMO. And not even a very popular one.

My statement stands... there exists no major MMO like the one the OP describes.

See, a lot of people get misty eyed about this kind of stuff, and it's interesting how different MMOs are from one another. Or what people's definition of "Multiplayer" is - was surprised to read this thread since I made something similar (although from the opposite viewpoint). http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=253758

Thing is, there are actually 3 kinds of games that have been lumped together under the name MMO.

MMOG - Massively Multiplayer Online Game. Persistant world with lots of solo and group content. Very little social interaction needed, but it's there for those who want it. See: WoW, DCUO, Hellgate, Diablo 2/3.

MSOG - Massively Social Online Game. Persistant world with almost exclusively group content. Social interaction and guilds needed. See: Everquest, Old WoW.

MSORPG - Massively Social Online RPG. What you seem to miss. Game is more focussed on living in a virtual world/society than the 'game' aspects.

I think you need to campaign for more MSORPGs to be made rather than trying to change the first two.

How dare you bring SWG into this discussion.





I miss that game so much.

It's always been gear orientated, it's just that you got far fewer pieces, if any, in a grind. Dang bracers from giants... was it South Ro or somewhere near?

What kills me is that people that say "SWTOR is stupid and I'm cancelling my sub right now," still log onto these forums and ***** and ***** and ***** all day long. Simple solution: don't play. Seriously, it's like shoving a wooden stake through your skull and complaining that your head hurts. Grow up.

In UO, the game I played on and off from release up until 2005, there was grind but due to the nature of the games, you never felt useless. Even if you weren't maxed out on all of your skills, you could still not only participate in dungeon runs but also hold your own in PvP.

Going back to the OP, I do miss that world feeling that UO had. It really was a true virtual world where people lived and not just logged in to queue up for PvP or to LFG for some instances.

The challenge was the fun. It felt worthwhile. Getting levels every hour or 2 feels cheapish. Just my opinion.

The problem with sandbox games is that their consumer market is smaller than theme parks. Theme parks get more funding because they are likely to have a greater profit yield. When Bioware went to EA asking for $135-$200 million, you better believe that EA wasn't going to risk the largest video game budget in history on a gamble. This is why it is a theme park and so similar to WoW. That kind of money is a lot to risk and this approach had the lowest risk.