Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Operations auto-assigned loot problems

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Operations auto-assigned loot problems
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

tkinnunzero's Avatar


tkinnunzero
03.28.2012 , 07:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidBass View Post
Good news! We announced at the Guild Summit that we're removing this "pre-destined loot" system from Story difficulty in Game Update 1.2.
What's the plan currently?

WoW is changing their LFR difficulty looting to give something usable from the boss's loot table to everyone who rolls high enough, regardless of what other people roll. Of course since LFR in WoW is cross-server it's much easier for players to escape any loot drama back to their own server. So I'm really anxious to hear how SWTOR is going to improve on WoW's version with the no-cross-server-LFR restriction in place.

smore's Avatar


smore
03.28.2012 , 11:22 PM | #12
@Couch_Goblin: there's no predetermined 'healer' or 'DPS' gear drops in ops, at least none that would be worth a forum post - "real" gear comes in form of tokens which you can trade in for your flavour of choice at the appropriate trader.

@BlackMink: what's the problem with Master Looter? We've never had any issue with it, ever. Have we just gotten lucky or...?
Your suggestion could work but it seems a wee bit too complicated to me (plus it's really just a glorified interface for Master Looter). Why don't just use ML and have the potentially interested people /roll on individual pieces?
For us it works like this:
- roll for Need (only the classes that can actually use the piece)
- if no one wants, roll for companions/mod extraction (anyone)
- if there's still no one interested, assign to random Ops member

But then again, that's under the assumption that ML works (which it does, in our runs). So, what's the issue with ML?
Council of The West

Andaliel - lvl50 Miraluka Sage || Andalei - lvl50 Mirialan Gunslinger

Offended's Avatar


Offended
03.29.2012 , 12:09 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackMink View Post
You know, it was a really good idea. I wish you could just improve it rather than throw it away. Normal mode raids are nice because of that loot system. Just have everyone loot the boss. Maybe they get something, maybe they don't. No muss, no fuss, no need for us to establish fancy loot rules.

But then we get to hard mode raids, and we are right back to old fashioned loot problems. When you happen to have 4 of the same class in the raid and two of that class's rakata item drops, it's a real PITA to distribute them. If you use the need/greed system, you run the risk of one person winning both. If you use the Master loot system, you run the risk of bugging out the loot.

By the way, the master looter system sucks.


You know what would be really nice in SWTOR raiding? An entirely new Master loot system. This is what I envision:

- Only the raid leader can loot a corpse. This prevents people from looting early when there may be dead people on their way back from the med-center.

- When the corpse or chest is looted, pop up a big window for everyone in the raid. This window would be similar to the auction house UI, capable of listing every item the boss has all at the same time.

- Individual players can 'opt-in' for each individual piece of loot. Everyone in the raid can see who has opted for what.

- The master looter can make sure everyone has 'opted' for the items they need to, and everything is taken care of. Loot is not distributed until the master looter hits a 'go' or 'accept' button.

- Each individual item would be randomly distributed (like need / greed) to the people who opted for it.

- People can change their mind and cancel their opt-in for an item before the master looter hits his accept button.


I described this idea to my raid group a while back, and the responce I got was "I wish we had that!". So please consider.
before OMG GO BACK TO WOW POST!!, back in the MC/BWL days i wrote an addon for the guild that i was in that did almost exactly this for our DKP system.

CurseForge ftw.
http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/project-1830/

It used a system of tells. I didn't want to rely on having every one using the addon so i made it easy to use. non loot masters can use the addon and if they did the loot would pop up in exactly the way you describe. If they used the addon and wanted to bid on an item they could click it in the window. If they didn't use the item, they would send a tell with the item name in it.

Offended's Avatar


Offended
03.29.2012 , 12:13 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by tkinnunzero View Post
What's the plan currently?

WoW is changing their LFR difficulty looting to give something usable from the boss's loot table to everyone who rolls high enough, regardless of what other people roll. Of course since LFR in WoW is cross-server it's much easier for players to escape any loot drama back to their own server. So I'm really anxious to hear how SWTOR is going to improve on WoW's version with the no-cross-server-LFR restriction in place.
  • The boss dies.
  • Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
  • For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that bossís loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
  • Notice that you arenít rolling Need or Greed. You donít have an option to Pass. The game just says ďTake this.Ē
  • You canít trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you donít want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.

Just to clarify your post.

I put in bold the most important difference between the way TOR does it, and the way WoW will do it.

skeeterslint's Avatar


skeeterslint
03.29.2012 , 12:33 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidBass View Post
Good news! We announced at the Guild Summit that we're removing this "pre-destined loot" system from Story difficulty in Game Update 1.2.
Why don't you leave the system as it is and instead make this loot tradeable for a time for anyone who was involved in the raid.This option seems to make more sense.In fact it should be this way for any group that kills mobs that could possible have BOP items on them incase someone accidently rolls need and wins the BOP item they can trade it off to a player in the group who was also involved in the kill that can use it/should have gotten it.Call me crazy but it makes sense.

And one other thing, when a mob is looted please have popups for all the items that the mob has only showing to boxes on the screen to roll for kinda sucks show more or do like someone esle posted above that had the better idea for master loot.

Urkanan's Avatar


Urkanan
03.29.2012 , 12:59 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by tkinnunzero View Post
WoW is changing their LFR difficulty looting to give something usable from the boss's loot table to everyone who rolls high enough, regardless of what other people roll.
It is the fist time I hear of this "assigned loot" removal, I thought I was following 1.2 closely lol.
It is also the first time I hear this about WoW (not playing it any more)

I was slightly concerned by the fact that now even MMO games hand out Participant trophies. You humans are a weak species



Quote: Originally Posted by skeeterslint View Post
Why don't you leave the system as it is and instead make this loot tradeable for a time for anyone who was involved in the raid.
This.

Simple and effective. It also allows BW to devote time to actually producing a good game rather than using it to design systems to counter playerbase idiocy and satisfy their sense of entitledness.

Satanski's Avatar


Satanski
03.29.2012 , 04:50 AM | #17
I prefer the system as it is now. I hate all this rolling/passing drama and master looter ****. The problems begin when you have to depend on other players. Now im independent and i like it. Fast and simple.

tkinnunzero's Avatar


tkinnunzero
03.29.2012 , 07:00 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by skeeterslint View Post
Why don't you leave the system as it is and instead make this loot tradeable for a time for anyone who was involved in the raid.
Making the loot tradable opens a door for some very nasty bullying. "Give that item to our guild member or you're kicked out of the raid and blacklisted from all future raids with our guild".

BlackMink's Avatar


BlackMink
03.29.2012 , 09:42 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by smore View Post

@BlackMink: what's the problem with Master Looter? We've never had any issue with it, ever. Have we just gotten lucky or...?

Every time we've tried to use it, it has bugged out a loot item here and there. The master looter tries to send an item to the person who won the /roll, but it just permanently stays on the corpse or in the chest. This has happened to us both before and after they supposedly 'fixed' master looter. We have lost important Rakata drops that people needed thanks to this broken master looter system. And the CS were unwilling or unable to help.

And no, the master looter system I described is not just a different interface, it's an interface that appears for everyone in the raid. One of the current flaws with Master looter is ONLY the master looter gets to see what dropped, and then has to slowly link each piece and have people /roll for it one at a time. It's combersome and time consuming.

The master looter system I proposed before will allow everyone to see just what dropped, up front. And it will allow everyone to see who has opted for (needing) on each item, before it's actually distributed. This is essentially idiot proofing.

Sometimes people don't roll on the things they should be (ex. an Agent passes on the rakata off-hand item because the icon looks like a pistol.)

Other times for whatever reason, people roll need on items they shouldn't have. Effectively ninjaing the item. Wether this is intentional or a mistake, there is no way to cancel your choice once the button has been hit. My idea for a master looter system would allow us to double check everyone's rolls, before finalizing the loot distribution.

Yet another problem with the current loot systems is not seeing everything that drops. With Need/Greed only two items appear on your screen at a time. It sucks to see your Rakata drop, roll need on it, then find out later that a second one also dropped. Now what do you do for that second roll when you have no idea if you've won that first one or not?

Not only would my loot system be idiot proof, it would work a whole lot faster and be more user friendly than the current link and /roll master looter system.

Resallaprov's Avatar


Resallaprov
03.29.2012 , 09:54 AM | #20
Sounds more like an issue for PUGs than guild runs.

We use ML, link the item and ask who needs it. If multiple do, we'll do a /roll and the highest roll gets the loot. I fail to see an issue here.

Of course, if the person that you are trying to give the loot to is too far away it stays on the corpse/chest. I usually have to tell them to get closer to me and there isn't an issue.