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No need for an army if you got a navy?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
No need for an army if you got a navy?

Tawkis's Avatar


Tawkis
01.30.2012 , 04:49 PM | #11
If you haven'y read it before, I highly recommend you read Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein. Aside from being one of the best Sci-Fi books out there, it sums your question up nicely at two different points.

Of course I don't actually have the quotes handy.

One of them referenced the army making war as personal as a punch in the nose. The other was a question of scale.

crazysam's Avatar


crazysam
01.30.2012 , 07:22 PM | #12
Last person I would want in the military of my country would be this thread OP.

Bronze_Elemental's Avatar


Bronze_Elemental
01.30.2012 , 08:29 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by crazysam View Post
Last person I would want in the military of my country would be this thread OP.
The British controlled 2/3rds of the world's people with only a tiny land based army thanks to their navy

Gantoris_Aym's Avatar


Gantoris_Aym
01.30.2012 , 08:34 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Bronze_Elemental View Post
By default don't you conquer a planet by blockading it long enough?
earth has blockaded itself from the outer universe. this isn't Age of Empires...

Quote: Originally Posted by Bronze_Elemental View Post
The British controlled 2/3rds of the world's people with only a tiny land based army thanks to their navy
but eventually they were ousted by those same people, and if anything Greece, Rome, Mongolia, England, Egypt, China, and Persia have all proven that large empires eventually destroy themselves.

Also we're not even talking about continents, we're talking about PLANETS. You can't imply (logically) that there is no need for an army ever. What if they live on a planet that has an unlivable surface so they live deep deep underground, but they're the only planet with a certain and abundant (Possibly combustible) resource that the republic depends on? no Army = No point in attacking.

Bronze_Elemental's Avatar


Bronze_Elemental
01.30.2012 , 08:40 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Gantoris_Aym View Post
earth has blockaded itself from the outer universe. this isn't Age of Empires...
That's more a question of scale. Think of planets as islands in the pacific and space combat as the naval battles in WW2. Once the islands were cut off from the japanese sending in the marines was basically a formality as there was no possible way the japanese on the islands could win.

Gantoris_Aym's Avatar


Gantoris_Aym
01.30.2012 , 08:51 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Bronze_Elemental View Post
That's more a question of scale. Think of planets as islands in the pacific and space combat as the naval battles in WW2. Once the islands were cut off from the japanese sending in the marines was basically a formality as there was no possible way the japanese on the islands could win.
but Pacific Islands are not sustainable environments. and the Japanese lost that war with what many historians would argue WAS a superior navy. Also, the US didn't bomb the crap out of those Islands (not in an irreparable way, with the exception of the A bomb used as a last resort, and maybe Iwo Jima). They wanted to use them as their own bases of further attack.

how do you explain the collapse of the Chinese Empire with Zheung He's Navy? How do you explain the Fall of Medieval Korea to the Mongols? Korea had a massive and sophisticated Navy, but the ragtag Mongolians with Tents and Horses conquered Korea with their superior horse driven ARMY? Korea also had many invasions from Japan.

and what about a planet with highly sophisticated air defense systems? Not every invading empire was lucky enough to have Basilisks.

Meadore's Avatar


Meadore
01.30.2012 , 08:59 PM | #17
I think this was covered in a JK story line on Corroscant. ( SP ).
After the Taris accident they made sure that every planet has planetary shields so that it wouldn't happen again.

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
01.30.2012 , 09:03 PM | #18
Only infantry can actually take and hold ground. Sure, you can park all the spaceships you want in orbit, but the planet isn't really conquered or pacified unless you have your troops and your government in place.

You can't simply bomb a planet into submission unless you're trying to make a point (the point being, don't screw with us if you like having planets to live on.) The whole reason the Yuuzhan Vong had to invade the Star Wars galaxy was because warfare had rendered their home galaxy uninhabitable, due in large part to an unorthodox but HIGHLY effective form of orbital bombardment called Yo'Gand's Core, in which a dovin basal (gravity-generating bioengineered organism) would pull a planet's moon down into the planet, shattering it completely.) In general, if a planet is valuable enough to conquer, it's valuable enough conquer relatively intact. Look at Grand Admiral Thrawn's conquest of Ukio. He used the cloaking shield and Joruus C'baoth's Battle Meditation-type ability to make it appear that his Star Destroyer could shoot cleanly through the planetary shield. The psychological effect of that was to have the Ukians surrender while their planetary shield was operational, meaning that the occupying Imperial forces didn't even need to rebuild or repair destroyed or damaged shield generators, they had full control of a fully operational planetary defense network. In terms of successful resource management, which is in the end what determines the victor of war, that's supremely important.

Now, did Thrawn's tactic seem to invalidate the need for an Army? One might think, but one would be wrong. After all, even though the trick worked and allowed a naval attack to force the planet's surrender, the ground forces still needed to seize control of key areas. . . such as those afforementioned planetary shield generators. After all, if Thrawn hadn't proceeded to land troops and take control of those defense stations, the Ukians could have simply turned their defenses back on the moment he left the system. Leading back to the original point:

Only infantry can actually take and hold ground.
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.30.2012 , 10:08 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Bronze_Elemental View Post
Why do they even need an army of clones/droids/soldiers if you could just bombard the entire planet surface to dust by controlling the space around it?

Sure, have some marines on board your capital ships to prevent/initiate boarding actions but other than that, why bother going down to the planets surface?
The same reason we don't just bomb Iraq or Afghan. Innocent civilians and bombardment will bring suffering and terribleness.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

ErikModi's Avatar


ErikModi
01.31.2012 , 09:34 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
The same reason we don't just bomb Iraq or Afghan. Innocent civilians and bombardment will bring suffering and terribleness.
I think the Gree call that "unparalleled perpendicularity."
Jedi vs. Sith, Page 97, column 2, paragraph 4, line 1:

Prior to the Battle of Ruusan, the Jedi used crystals from many different sources, and ignited lightsabers in every known hue, including purple, orange, and gold.