Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

8 man vs 16 man, wth Bioware?


TheVoidStalker's Avatar


TheVoidStalker
01.31.2012 , 10:57 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Psyclosis View Post
Why is it that the same loot drops in 8 mans as 16 mans, yet the 16 mans are easily 3 times easier?
That's the question you should be asking.

16 man fights are always easier, as the previous poster showed some clear examples.

Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
01.31.2012 , 11:39 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Grunternz View Post
8-Man Nightmare is mathematically harder. For example take Nightmare Soa;

8NM: 2 lightening balls

16NM: 3 lightening balls, yet 16 has double the people - why not double the balls then?

It used to be, but got out of control and almost impossible to win due to having twice as many people in a smaller area

Mind Trap health is the same for both: 25.5k - should be more than doubled for 16 considering 16man has 11 dps where as 8man has 5.

You obviously haven't run this fight yourself because on 8 man the traps don't have 25k health.

Health difference for phase 3: 630k (16NM) v 320k (8NM) yet 16 has more than double the dps (11 v 5 as stated above).

In this phase 16 man has exactly double the DPS as 8 man, because everyone - even healers should be DPSing on the boss.

You forgot to mention how the outgoing damageon 16 man normal is double or more than 8 man nightmare. And that on 16 man nightmare it's even higher.

You also fail to have valid points about anything in your post.

Please give me an actual example of how any 8 man is harder than 16, because it isn't.

Anthya's Avatar


Anthya
01.31.2012 , 12:54 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Iandayen View Post
You forgot to mention how the outgoing damageon 16 man normal is double or more than 8 man nightmare. And that on 16 man nightmare it's even higher.

You also fail to have valid points about anything in your post.

Please give me an actual example of how any 8 man is harder than 16, because it isn't.
I like how you dispute that 8 man mind traps have 25k HP. Have you done the fight on 8 Hard/Nightmare?

The traps have 25k HP on 8 Nightmare. The traps have 25k HP on 16 Nightmare.
Balls do not do extra damage on 16 Nightmare over 8 Nightmare.

For proof of either of these, feel free to compare ball damage and trap health:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDmPifRtfxo (@8:11) - 16 Nightmare Mind Trap Health
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3oH-Ufe4NA (@3:47-3:49) 16 Nightmare Lightning Ball Damage (Watch Dreadlich's health carefully)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3r9AGnLLRU (@3:11) - 8 Nightmare Mind Trap Health
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3r9AGnLLRU (@3:20-3:23) - 8 Nightmare Lightning Ball Damage (Watch Meebo's health carefully)

Also, your conjecture that 16 has exactly double the DPS of 8 man due to healers and tanks DPSing, is asinine. 11 pure DPS in 16 man vs 5 pure DPS in 8 man. Irrespective of healer and tank DPS, that's 120% (note 120%, not 100%) more DPS SPECCED PLAYERS than in 8 man. Notice that phase 3 doesn't require exactly 120% more damage done to Soa or traps in 16 man. This means that 16 man has an inherent advantage over 8 mans in terms of damage output. In fact, since lightning balls do not do more damage in 16 Nightmare over 8 Nightmare, you could quite feasibly run with less healers in 16 Nightmare (2-3 instead of 4, as the math assumes) and therefore push to 140-160% more DPS than 8 man, again, without the damage requirement even being double of 8 man.


Your move.

-Jodea-'s Avatar


-Jodea-
01.31.2012 , 01:10 PM | #14
Owned?

HellFlame's Avatar


HellFlame
01.31.2012 , 01:57 PM | #15
8-man operations are harder (I dont wanna say they are hard because nightmare was a thing for 1-2 days) than 16-man for a simple reason.

Lets say you are in step 3 @ soa in 8 man u basically got 2 healer 1 tank and 5 dps.
Then your tank gets mindtrapped and someone needs to take over. Additionally there are lightning balls which you can hardly tank if your not tank/marauder while soa hits you, but you also must be sure soa stays under the pylon, which also damages you... in 16 man i dont see that problem.

Anthya's Avatar


Anthya
01.31.2012 , 02:37 PM | #16
TBH, neither mode is particularly difficult.

Pre-nerf HM Soa was challenging, but post-nerf even Nightmare is a complete snoozefest.

While some of the encounters show potential (mechanics wise) such as Bounty Hunters, Fabricator and Soa, nothing at all is tuned to be even remotely challenging now.

Which is OK, since it's entry level raiding - but god I hope 1.2 tier is both challenging and tuned correctly for both 8 and 16.

Maybe wishful thinking, remains to be seen.

gramz's Avatar


gramz
01.31.2012 , 02:40 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Anthya View Post
TBH, neither mode is particularly difficult.

Pre-nerf HM Soa was challenging, but post-nerf even Nightmare is a complete snoozefest.

While some of the encounters show potential (mechanics wise) such as Bounty Hunters, Fabricator and Soa, nothing at all is tuned to be even remotely challenging now.

Which is OK, since it's entry level raiding - but god I hope 1.2 tier is both challenging and tuned correctly for both 8 and 16.

Maybe wishful thinking, remains to be seen.
The fights have potential as you said, but right now its tuned so you can just brute force mechanics.

alienfromhell's Avatar


alienfromhell
01.31.2012 , 02:52 PM | #18
For the people complaining about how easy the 8 mans are do 16 mans. For people complaining about how hard 16 man is do 8 man. 8 mans are for casuals and 16 mans are for hardcore raiders whats the problem.
They should make a server called "Rehab" and transfer all the quitters there.

Anthya's Avatar


Anthya
01.31.2012 , 03:12 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by alienfromhell View Post
For the people complaining about how easy the 8 mans are do 16 mans. For people complaining about how hard 16 man is do 8 man. 8 mans are for casuals and 16 mans are for hardcore raiders whats the problem.
Well, somebody managed to miss the point.

Madprophetus's Avatar


Madprophetus
01.31.2012 , 04:19 PM | #20
because the purpose of the game is not to entertain you, it's to keep you subscribed. Unless that paradigm shifts, this game will be going the way of NGE before long.