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Range vs melee


flowqz's Avatar


flowqz
01.30.2012 , 09:27 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
It does NOT make Melee DPS obsolete, it just takes more skill. At its core Melee involves moving and DPSing. That alone mean your spending more time focusing on moving and not DPSing, where as a ranged for the most part in Ops situations just has to sit back and fire. Skilled Melee know how to move and DPS habitually without having to strike a thought as to when or where to move. Your just less likely to find effective Melle compared to effective Ranged. Plus Melee is a must because of interrupts.

More to post on this thread in little later.
if melee HAS to be harder as ranged (as u say) they have to be more effective (meaning higher dps or utility)

why should i bring a melee if a ranged is saver but takes no dmg? oh and the mentioned "interups"... well bring 1marauder and u r done with your melee dps.

ps: your rp logic isnt required in here. noone wants to read things like "lolol u r in melee u have to take more dmg trololol"

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 09:37 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
It does NOT make Melee DPS obsolete, it just takes more skill. At its core Melee involves moving and DPSing. That alone mean your spending more time focusing on moving and not DPSing, where as a ranged for the most part in Ops situations just has to sit back and fire. Skilled Melee know how to move and DPS habitually without having to strike a thought as to when or where to move. Your just less likely to find effective Melle compared to effective Ranged. Plus Melee is a must because of interrupts.

More to post on this thread in little later.
You just contradicted yourself. If melee "takes more skill" than ranged, yet fail to outperform range at any function, then they are OBSOLETE. Why bother with them? Who said ranged classes have no interrupts? They do, which continues to make melees outdated. When it comes to raiding, there is one golden rule: do what clears the content the fastest. If taking ranged makes the raid easier, then raiders will choose ranged every time. They won't even recruit the melee classes. Melee don't take more "skill", they take more time and effort. You put more work in and get less out of them. That's the very definition of obsolete. Your point is still moot. There's no good reason to take ANY melee in your raid if the content is easier and faster taking ranged. What good reason can you give me to take a melee over a ranged? I want a challenge? Since I'm not the one playing the melee, I have no interest in giving that player the "challenge" they desired when they made the sad, sorry mistake of rolling melee. I want my raid cleared in the time I allotted for it, ergo I pass on the melees and recruit all ranged. Your view is way too short sighted. There needs to be a balance. There needs to be an advantage to being a melee over a ranged. Right now there is none.
There's no QQing in baseball.

Suntar's Avatar


Suntar
01.30.2012 , 09:39 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
Melee DPS is simply more of a challenge than ranged DPS, if you can't handle it, than I suggest you re-roll.
X is simply more challenging than Y, if you can't handle it , then i suggest you re-roll.

This really is the ultimate mmo statement, useable in all situations as a alternative to game balance!

Seriously though if melee classes are harder to play by design then they need to come with a disclaimer at creation. Otherwise it is reasonably to expect all classes are designed to be broadly equal.

A simple solution is for all Op bosses to have a feature where they take additional damage from melee dps. The actual % of extra damage varies from boss to boss depending on how melee unfriendly they are or how restricted the melee's dps time is compared to the dps time of range dps due to movement requirements.

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 09:42 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Suntar View Post
X is simply more challenging than Y, if you can't handle it , then i suggest you re-roll.

This really is the ultimate mmo statement, useable in all situations as a alternative to game balance!

Seriously though if melee classes are harder to play by design then they need to come with a disclaimer at creation. Otherwise it is reasonably to expect all classes are designed to be broadly equal.

A simple solution is for all Op bosses to have a feature where they take additional damage from melee dps. The actual % of extra damage varies from boss to boss depending on how melee unfriendly they are or how restricted the melee's dps time is compared to the dps time of range dps due to movement requirements.
That's the Blizzard solution and it's a stupid one. There smartest and most sensible solution is to either A) make bosses that are unfriendly to ranged and friendly to melee or B) make all bosses unfriendly to both types equally.
There's no QQing in baseball.

Jest's Avatar


Jest
01.30.2012 , 09:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
It does NOT make Melee DPS obsolete, it just takes more skill. At its core Melee involves moving and DPSing. That alone mean your spending more time focusing on moving and not DPSing, where as a ranged for the most part in Ops situations just has to sit back and fire. Skilled Melee know how to move and DPS habitually without having to strike a thought as to when or where to move. Your just less likely to find effective Melle compared to effective Ranged. Plus Melee is a must because of interrupts.

More to post on this thread in little later.
Your logic continues to be terrible. Interrupts are possessed by Ranged as well as Melee.. so why bring Melee?

With everything else being equal (Buffs, DPS, Interrupts) Melee is still more likely to die which makes them inherently less dependable. Player Skill or not, they're getting knocked back out of range of heals, hit with cleaves, knocked down, etc.. and these are things that are completely out of their control... so why bring them?

This same issue is/was present in WoW. The problem is the Encounter design is much too harsh on Melee. No matter how good you are as a Melee character, you're going to die and probably more often than your Ranged counterparts so for Guilds interested in Progression consitency, they'll bring Ranged over Melee every time. And that's bad.

I disagree personally, that Melee DPS should be buffed.. but I think more encounters need to be designed without Bias of Range to the boss. Attacks like Mind Traps, Lightning Balls, Storm Protocol, etc.. are great because they show no Bias to Range or Melee. More attacks/mechanics like this will bring an equality to composition. If you absolutely MUST design a Melee specific mechanic, then an equally dangerous Ranged specific mechanic should be included in the same fight.

This will allow Raid Leaders to legitimately bring the player, not the class.

Stathor's Avatar


Stathor
01.30.2012 , 09:48 AM | #16
Yea this is BS, I don't even feel like playing my Assassin after reading these threads, I might as well reroll ranged dps.

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 09:49 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Stathor View Post
Yea this is BS, I don't even feel like playing my Assassin after reading these threads, I might as well reroll ranged dps.
Didn't you know? This is "Sorcerers and Tracer Missile Spammers Online... oh yea and some Snipers"(Republic classes don't count, we all know Bioware hates them).
There's no QQing in baseball.

Stathor's Avatar


Stathor
01.30.2012 , 10:15 AM | #18
And the thing is that.. Hello BW this is Star Wars, which means most people wants to play a toon that uses a freakin lightsaber, and you made them have a disadvantage..

Rattius's Avatar


Rattius
01.30.2012 , 10:25 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
Melee should be harder than range, i mean, your standing next to the boss... Its only natural that it should be dangerous because your right next to a behemoth that will mess you up.
Then offset the required jousting and survivability issues by giving them more DPS capability. Oh that's right, I forgot about the PVP whiners; ya can't do that.

This is but one example of why PVPers need their own game. The mirrored skills are another. Aside from the animations and names, there's little to no uniqueness in abilities. Everyone needs a stun break. Everyone needs a purge/cleanse. Everyone needs a revive. Everyone needs a...

TLR - IMO, PVP destroys the potential richness and varience of PVE.

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 10:32 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Rattius View Post
Then offset the required jousting and survivability issues by giving them more DPS capability. Oh that's right, I forgot about the PVP whiners; ya can't do that.

This is but one example of why PVPers need their own game. The mirrored skills are another. Aside from the animations and names, there's little to no uniqueness in abilities. Everyone needs a stun break. Everyone needs a purge/cleanse. Everyone needs a revive. Everyone needs a...

TLR - IMO, PVP destroys the potential richness and varience of PVE.
Melee aren't exactly the shining star of PvP either. Having them straight up do more damage than ranged would actually go long ways to balancing both areas, PvE and PvP alike. There's a massive amount of anti-melee abilities that are both player and NPC based. Melee really need some love.
There's no QQing in baseball.