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Range vs melee


Suntar's Avatar


Suntar
01.30.2012 , 05:53 AM | #1
From what I have seen so far in HM fp and Ops there seems to be a bit of an imbalance in the number of melee friendly, fights vs the number of range friendly fights?

Now I understand that for PVP balance reasons that melee don't rescieve any kind of significant bonus to compensate. Thats fair enough and probably the right thing to do design wise.

Is this something that changes in harder ops or is it the case that life is just harder for the PVE melee dps?

Rifts had a bit of success in improving encounters to be less melee unfriendly I was hoping that swtor would have taken this into account in their design phase.

lineschmidt's Avatar


lineschmidt
01.30.2012 , 06:08 AM | #2
It amazes me how mmo devs consistently ****s this up

Blizzard had to put in a flat buff for melee in raid encounters because they were unable to design proper melee friendly fights >.<

I agree about not buffing melee dps for pvp reasons but they really should take care to design more melee friendly pve fights

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 07:56 AM | #3
Devs are retarded. They think every fight should only involve point blank and close range abilities, thereby screwing melees over in PvE. It's so dumb. I don't know where this ludicrous sentiment comes from, but it essentially forces every raid group to run all ranged DPS. Why shouldn't they? Melees take more healing, lose DPS because they're constantly CCed, and can't take advantage of better positioning. The devs in Bioware have inherited this retardation from Blizzard.
There's no QQing in baseball.

flowqz's Avatar


flowqz
01.30.2012 , 08:06 AM | #4
the foreman crusher encounter thows his rocks only on targets at range. i think this is the only encounter where the life of a melee is easier (while u can still put some of ur ranged dps in melee range)

Sujimichi's Avatar


Sujimichi
01.30.2012 , 08:39 AM | #5
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240901

That's pretty much the melee vs range situation right now.
Isylia - lvl 50 guardian

GM of Distortion, PVE guild on the PVP realm Tott Doneeta

Jhaegar's Avatar


Jhaegar
01.30.2012 , 08:47 AM | #6
Melee should be harder than range, i mean, your standing next to the boss... Its only natural that it should be dangerous because your right next to a behemoth that will mess you up. If your standing in range than your not up in the action, and DPSing should be easier because you don't have to worry about getting smacked nearly as often. If a Melee DPSer can be competitive in damage with the ranged DPSers than it is a sign of a skilled MMO'er, plain and simple. They do exist out there, but there not as common as the Merc/Commando or Sorcerer/Sages facerolling to top damage by standing still with simple rotations. If you find yourself dying too often as a melee than you need to not stand in fire, stop attacking random targets, and learn to move and DPS simultaneously and efficiently. Melee DPS is simply more of a challenge than ranged DPS, if you can't handle it, than I suggest you re-roll.
Be mindful of the currents of the living Force; to do one's duty is not always to do right. Concern yourself with the right action. Let duty take care of itself.

KiranK's Avatar


KiranK
01.30.2012 , 08:52 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
Melee should be harder than range, i mean, your standing next to the boss... Its only natural that it should be dangerous because your right next to a behemoth that will mess you up. If your standing in range than your not up in the action, and DPSing should be easier because you don't have to worry about getting smacked nearly as often. If a Melee DPSer can be competitive in damage with the ranged DPSers than it is a sign of a skilled MMO'er, plain and simple. They do exist out there, but there not as common as the Merc/Commando or Sorcerer/Sages facerolling to top damage by standing still with simple rotations. If you find yourself dying too often as a melee than you need to not stand in fire, stop attacking random targets, and learn to move and DPS simultaneously and efficiently. Melee DPS is simply more of a challenge than ranged DPS, if you can't handle it, than I suggest you re-roll.
Terrible logic. What you basically said was this "Roll sorc or Merc 'cause it's easier". You didn't provide any logic as to WHY it should be easier other than, "you aren't right next to them". That makes melee DPS obsolete. If every boss is easier with all ranged then why pick up melee at all? Everyone should just roll sorc.
There's no QQing in baseball.

JamieM's Avatar


JamieM
01.30.2012 , 09:05 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
Melee should be harder than range, i mean, your standing next to the boss... Its only natural that it should be dangerous because your right next to a behemoth that will mess you up. If your standing in range than your not up in the action, and DPSing should be easier because you don't have to worry about getting smacked nearly as often. If a Melee DPSer can be competitive in damage with the ranged DPSers than it is a sign of a skilled MMO'er, plain and simple. They do exist out there, but there not as common as the Merc/Commando or Sorcerer/Sages facerolling to top damage by standing still with simple rotations. If you find yourself dying too often as a melee than you need to not stand in fire, stop attacking random targets, and learn to move and DPS simultaneously and efficiently. Melee DPS is simply more of a challenge than ranged DPS, if you can't handle it, than I suggest you re-roll.
I think there is a more pressing point here. Most melee don't have an issue with their role in raids or what's expected of them (for the most part), it's more about their usefulness - (or raid utility) that their class brings to a raid apart from damage. At present apart from a few minor buffs, melee offer hardly anything to an ops group that makes them worth bringing instead of a comparatively geared ranged. This shouldn't matter too much in most established guilds or guilds which raid with their friends as they will likely select raid composition based on who their buddies are - but if you are applying to a raiding guild then it is quite likely that guild will not be too fussed about recruiting any more melee beyond that which they have to as the ranged can do everything the melee can but more likely with better results and more raid utulity (battle rez / buffs etc) and less risk of death / added healing.

More variety that placed ranged at a disadvantage compared to melee for some encounters would also be a welcome change that would go some ways to addressing this issue. It's not a hard thing to implement and would be appreciated by both ranged (who want added challenge) and melee (who want to feel more than second class dps) i think.

Jhaegar's Avatar


Jhaegar
01.30.2012 , 09:17 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by KiranK View Post
Terrible logic. What you basically said was this "Roll sorc or Merc 'cause it's easier". You didn't provide any logic as to WHY it should be easier other than, "you aren't right next to them". That makes melee DPS obsolete. If every boss is easier with all ranged then why pick up melee at all? Everyone should just roll sorc.
It does NOT make Melee DPS obsolete, it just takes more skill. At its core Melee involves moving and DPSing. That alone mean your spending more time focusing on moving and not DPSing, where as a ranged for the most part in Ops situations just has to sit back and fire. Skilled Melee know how to move and DPS habitually without having to strike a thought as to when or where to move. Your just less likely to find effective Melle compared to effective Ranged. Plus Melee is a must because of interrupts.

More to post on this thread in little later.
Be mindful of the currents of the living Force; to do one's duty is not always to do right. Concern yourself with the right action. Let duty take care of itself.

Suntar's Avatar


Suntar
01.30.2012 , 09:26 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Jhaegar View Post
Melee DPS is simply more of a challenge than ranged DPS, if you can't handle it, than I suggest you re-roll.
X is simply more challenging than Y, if you can't handle it , then i suggest you re-roll.

This really is the ultimate mmo statement, useable in all situations as a alternative to game balance!

Seriously though if melee classes are harder to play by design then they need to come with a disclaimer at creation. Otherwise it is reasonably to expect all classes are designed to be broadly equal.

A simple solution is for all Op bosses to have a feature where they take additional damage from melee dps. The actual % of extra damage varies from boss to boss depending on how melee unfriendly they are or how restricted the melee's dps time is compared to the dps time of range dps due to movement requirements.