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Advanced Class Switching


Darren_Kitlor

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I'm a bit sceptical that i will make it to an alt for an inquistor and would very much like to alter the specialisation to suit my current need, much like ArenaNet have implied you will be able to do in Guildwars 2 (not released yet so we'll see)

 

having read this post on massively.com i doubt we'll be seeing that feature though... interview with Creative Director James Ohlen seems dumb struck by this question;

 

Q: How about advanced class respecs?

 

A: [Ten-second pause] Well, that's an interesting one. I would say, "I can't answer that one."

 

It seems this is the time sink they need to keep people replaying the same content just to get a healer and a full lightening build working.... boooo!!

 

:) roll on early access for us lazy December 5th pre-order'ers lol :(

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Yeah,

Should not be able to switch AC.

 

Now it would be nice to have an item that lets you swap between two tree specs, ie your solo one and your group one, but within the same AC

 

Also known as dual-speccing, which is supposedly coming out in the not-too-distant future.

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Hopefully not. They want choice to matter, and getting to switch classes pretty much eliminates one of the biggest choices in the game.

 

Why do you care if others can switch their AC? If you feel like it's such an "important" choice then you can just not take advantage of it...the stories are identical, ACs for each class are nearly identical, the only reason they're leaving it out is because bioware wants the appearance of 8 classes.

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There were huge discussions about AC respeccing during beta. (not talent respeccing which is totally different).

The stories are the same but the AC's are different. I was all for AC respec but now I believe in a compromise:

I think you should be allowed to 'test' the other AC at some point while leveling- maybe 2x to see if the other is a better fit for the player. Possibly 4 times like every 10 levels- 20,30,40 and one last at 50. You do not have to repeat the story then- new name etc.

I do not think full respec at any point after 50 is a good idea unless they add some kind of long story quest to change it- which would be cool.

That makes AC be just like talents. If you go down that road- why have ac at all- just give people all abilites and 5 talent trees.

I also don't think charging for it is good because you get guild pressure and that's not cool when money is involved.

Edited by Crogga
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I think people are looking at it the wrong way. Advanced class is not part of your spec... its part of your class selection. So there is essentially 8 classes in this game. And you certainly should not be able to switch your advanced class, because Bioware will make the same mistake Blizzard did with all the casual **** to suit people who log on to play 2 hours a week.

 

That is the reason why WOW lost its vanilla charm. I don't want to see this happen to SWTOR and hopefully Bioware devs have realised that as well.

 

If people get to change their advanced class whenever they feel like it you will end up with a bunch of players who didnt learn their roles properly and cant play for ****. Making the experience worse for everyone.

 

Do your research and pick carefully.

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So there is essentially 8 classes in this game. And you certainly should not be able to switch your advanced class, because Bioware will make the same mistake Blizzard did with all the casual **** to suit people who log on to play 2 hours a week.

 

 

Holy ****, are you really condescending to people that have obligations that don't involve the acquisition of digital numbers and pixels?

 

I am baffled, sir. Well done.

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I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

 

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

 

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

 

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

 

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.

They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

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I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

 

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

 

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

 

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

 

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.

They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

 

Bingo!

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EQ2 has a betrayal quest line which allowed you to change your class to your alternate class (ie Guadrian could switch to Sentinal) and you could change factions i believe this was time consuming and relatively costly.

 

I'd be okay with something like that added in a few months. Neat little addition this setup allowed you to have faction restricted races switch to other faction/class.

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I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

 

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

 

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

 

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

 

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.

They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

 

Your stance supporting the segregation of Advanced Classes kind of took a nosedive once it became clear you had no idea what you were talking about. +1 to the "Bingo" guy in his support of your post too.

Edited by Tokeii
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Advanced class has ZERO impact on story--as well as ZERO impact on Light/Dark affiliation.

 

I can't think of a single reason why Advanced Class switching can't be added.

 

I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

 

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

 

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

 

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

 

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.

They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

 

We're not talking about the difference between Hunter and Paladin.

 

Most advanced classes share a considerable number of skills and base mechanics to gameplay. If you think they're different enough to use such a comparison, you should really look at the powers list for the advanced classes within the same class.

 

Also, since when did Bounty Hunters use cover??

Edited by Darren_Kitlor
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They don't, but his point is sound.

 

Sorcs and Assassins are very functionally different, as are Operative and Sniper.

 

It would be very similar to allowing individuals to changing their class in most other games.

 

A 1 time switch has been thrown around, below level 20, in case of "mistakes". You can be certain that frequent switches wont be allowed.

 

Dual Specs on the other hand should be making into the game sometime after launch, as per Stephen Reid.

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They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

 

Your ignorance is scary.

 

 

FFXI ---->

 

<--- FFXIV

 

Not to mention about 5 other titles <.<

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I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

 

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

 

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

 

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

 

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.

They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?

 

Merc's don't use cover.

 

Now, the comparison you raised is accurate, but it doesn't actually make an argument. Okay, the OP is asking for the option to let his 'paladin' be changed into a 'hunter.' So, why not? The only reason you've given is that no other MMO does that, and I think even you will realize that's a pretty weak reason.

 

So, now to think of a reason for it. Here goes, it would increase player enjoyment, thus increasing player loyalty and the overall health of the MMO.

 

Okay, balls back in your court, now come up with a GOOD reason to disallow AC switching.

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Getting to level 10 gives you ZERO indication of what or how the advanced class is going to play. The content was designed with the base archetype in mind, not the advanced class.

 

I may be completely in the minority on this but this is what doesn't make any sense to me:

 

I level up an Imperial Agent from 1-50 with the intent to go to Sniper. I experience the storyline in all of its glory with the wonderful twists, turns, betrayal, etc. I've reached max level and I decide I want to check out the Operative. I now have to go through the EXACT same content again to get there. One could argue that you could force yourself to choose light vs dark or vice versa in order to get a different outcome but is that really an option?

 

In a game that is so focused on story it would have made much more sense to tailor the stories to the advanced classes and not the base archetype giving you much more room for replayability.

 

What about rewarding those who have reached max level the ability to switch their AC (temporarily or permanently) in order to check out the advanced part of their class?

 

The choice of picking an advanced class is such an important one but the content design around it was not.

Edited by Pyksel
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Yeah I made a mistake, I started out with an IA comparison and then changed it halfway through and I was speaking like a pretentious *** so it makes sense for people to call me out EDIT; I'm Australian so it was also late >.>.

The rest of my point was entirely valid though.

 

Reasons to disallow AC switching;

~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

 

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

 

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

 

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.

Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

 

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).

Edited by Invitcted
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Yeah I made a mistake, I started out with an IA comparison and then changed it halfway through and I was speaking like a pretentious *** so it makes sense for people to call me out EDIT; I'm Australian so it was also late >.>.

The rest of my point was entirely valid though.

 

Reasons to disallow AC switching;

~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

 

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

 

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

 

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.

Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

 

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).

 

 

Great points and I don't think anyone is arguing the important nature of the decision of the AC. I think the point is, if it were that important, why wasn't the content designed around it so that when you DID level up again as the alternate advanced class you would have an entirely different storyline to work through.

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Story is important in ToR I'm not a 'lollore' player but the class story finishes (for now) at max level and lets face it you will spend more time at max level then you will leveling (unless you're an altaholic and/or don't care about endgame. Neither type of player would have much of a reason to reroll at 50 all things considered).

There is really only so far one can take the 'but it's the same story why should I have to play it again' argument

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