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Advanced Class Switching

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Advanced Class Switching

Wind_Chaser's Avatar


Wind_Chaser
12.18.2011 , 07:36 PM | #71
I'd pay RL money to switch my AC if I hated the one I picked to avoid having to reroll .

Juumanistra's Avatar


Juumanistra
12.19.2011 , 01:18 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Ekswing View Post
I will be completely disappointed if Bioware allows AC Swapping. I think that is a Terrible idea. As many have said, it is Advanced CLASSES. Not Advanced Spec. Not Advanced Build. Classes. The difference between them is huge.

Think hard on which AC to pick. If you feel like you made the wrong choice, it's only 10 levels. Buck up, and do it again. The game isn't even out yet, and we already have a million people crying because they want This and That changed. Just insulting.
It's not just ten levels. It's ten levels to get the AC. Then it's another ten levels to actually get the cornerstone rotational abilities and for your chosen spec within the AC to start coming together, so you can make an informed choice as to whether it's enjoyable. (Assuming you're playing something that starts coming together before L30. As opposed to things like the Combat Sentinel/Marauder, which doesn't really come into its own until the late-L30s.) That's a sizable expenditure of time on something that was being rolled because you, for whatever reason, wanted to try something different from your first AC.

"Think hard on which AC to pick," is piss-poor advice and cold comfort for those who've discovered, much to their horror, that as they've entered the mid-levels their AC just isn't fun for them. This can be laid rather squarely at the feet of the aforementioned late-blooming talent trees. No matter how hard you think about your AC, you have more or less zero chance of knowing how it'll actually play if you aren't the kind who goes reading class guides beforehand. Bioware essentially asks you to make the choice that defines your character after you've sunk 4-8 hours into the process based upon aesthetics and what role you might like to fill, rather than what kind of playstyle you find fun. This strikes me as a serious design flaw. Retooling the base classes so that you can, in your starting zone, dabble in the foundational work of each advanced class would go a long ways towards remedying that particular problem and cure a not-insubstantial amount of agitation for AC switching, as you'd have better sorting of playstyles and more rerolling at a point where's no real issue of sunk costs.

To head off the complaints of, "well, in other MMOs, you choose your class the same way!", all me to concur. The key difference is that, because of the fact you're logging more than a couple of hours in your base class, the impact of discovering you don't like your "class" is fundamentally different. In That Other MMO That Shall Not Be Named, logging five hours will take you deep enough into your class for you to get your core rotational abilities and let you see if you like the way the class handles. In TOR, for that same five hours, you've now just gotten your AC and are staring at another three to five to get the building blocks of your rotation. (Disclaimer: My experience is only with the Jedi Knight, which gave Soresu/Juyo Form at L14.) While I love the TOR experience, the advanced class system gives me flashbacks to Ragnarok Online: Having to grind through essentially ten levels of mechanical filler just to get to my main class was stupid almost a decade, and it's still stupid today.

Also: Why is suggesting changes a bad thing, exactly, Ekswing? Feedback from the player-base is important, and TOR's still a bit rough around the edges. Certainly can't hurt -- and is by no means "disgusting" -- to note areas where improvement could be made.

skwrl's Avatar


skwrl
12.19.2011 , 03:52 PM | #73
It wouldn't be an improvement.

Oh, and this isn't going to happen. At least not like people are asking for it in this thread. There will not come a time when you can switch your class late in the game.

If someone has to explain to you why you can't switch classes in an MMO, then perhaps you just don't understand.

iWopo's Avatar


iWopo
12.20.2011 , 04:10 AM | #74
I would love to see at least one chance to change my AC without having to start a whole new character.

I personally don't think anyone can get a real feel about how the class plays out until the lv 25 - 30 range. At level 10 you have one, maybe two abilities from your AC.

I chose Merc spec for my BH at lv 10. I read the description, looked through the talent trees, the whole nine yards. I just recently hit 25, and the further I progress, the less I am enjoying my AC.

I level another BH to try out Powertech, and the abilities flow better with my playstyle. I just don't like the idea of having to start ALL OVER. Its just a big waste of time that has a simple fix:

-- Allow the player the chance to change their AC choice ONCE, at level 25. --

Leo_Hyborian's Avatar


Leo_Hyborian
12.20.2011 , 04:42 AM | #75
Sooo


With no one-off AC switch I will be doing the same story line, yawn, 3 times in a row. One time to find out scoundrel is **** in melee cause he dont have any defense to be in melee so i made alt gunslinger and now would like to delete my main to reroll the gunslinger...so yeah, played same story 3 times and really bored of game already cause of that fact.

Pretexts's Avatar


Pretexts
12.20.2011 , 04:52 AM | #76
Choice before lore, theme and common sense makes for a poor game. I know thatís the way all games are going, your choice as a player is more important than anything else in the world but it makes games ridiculous shells of a genre where choices once counted.

Do you want us to able to switch between Republic and Empire at the click of a button next? You know I would like to be able to play a Dalek Sith, who looks like a Dalek but with Sith powers!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully I have shown that choice is not always a good thing and pandering to whatever players want will end up making any game a joke of its former self.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
12.20.2011 , 06:16 AM | #77
It an ADVANCED CLASS what some seem to want is like the wow eqivalent of going from a mage to a rogue.

f they ever put that in game it will mark the death of it

LordPorkins's Avatar


LordPorkins
12.20.2011 , 06:36 AM | #78
I have no problem people re-speccing their AC as long as they go back to level 10 to start their new AC. it would be ridiculous if at level 40 you decided you didn't like healing and wanted to go tank and could switch over to a level 40 character by paying out.

Most ACs give you two mechanics to choose from anyway. Get over it.

Juumanistra's Avatar


Juumanistra
12.20.2011 , 02:44 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Pretexts View Post
Choice before lore, theme and common sense makes for a poor game. I know thatís the way all games are going, your choice as a player is more important than anything else in the world but it makes games ridiculous shells of a genre where choices once counted.

Do you want us to able to switch between Republic and Empire at the click of a button next? You know I would like to be able to play a Dalek Sith, who looks like a Dalek but with Sith powers!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully I have shown that choice is not always a good thing and pandering to whatever players want will end up making any game a joke of its former self.
You have demonstrated that reductio ad absurdum produces absurdities. Which, I am fairly sure, is a tautological statement. You've done nothing to prove that choice is not a good thing. Though I am curious: How, exactly, would allowing for changing Advanced Classes violate "lore, theme or common sense[,]" or is otherwise contrary to them? Every Advanced Class is framed as supplemental training to promote specialization: Retraining hardly seems beyond the pale, especially in a setting where we take space wizard-monks wielding laser swords for granted, don't bat an eye at there being a planet-destroying doomsday device buried somewhere in seemingly every zone, and would be crushed if there wasn't space combat that made no sense when objectively looked at.

Quote: Originally Posted by LordPorkins View Post
I have no problem people re-speccing their AC as long as they go back to level 10 to start their new AC. it would be ridiculous if at level 40 you decided you didn't like healing and wanted to go tank and could switch over to a level 40 character by paying out.

Most ACs give you two mechanics to choose from anyway. Get over it.
That succeeds in being even worse than forced rerolling, because at least when you reroll you have the opportunity to play around with character's visual aesthetics and how they interact with their story quest and/or companions.

Vaishevik's Avatar


Vaishevik
12.20.2011 , 04:56 PM | #80
Picking an AC needs to mean something people! What the &$%# do you think this is, a game?!

People, if you think gaming needs consequences to prevent other people from breaking your sense of immersion, you need to back away from the keyboard and spend time outdoors.

I have RL friends in the military who have changed their specialization several times over a career. Sometimes they weren't suited to their initial choice, sometimes their field was full and other roles needed to be filled. Not once did their superiors complain it was unrealistic because "if you wanted to be a rogue you shouldn't have rolled a mage".

I know using real-life analogies might be a weaker argument than pointing out that SWTOR CAN'T do something because that's not how other MMOs do it, but I'll risk it.