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Advanced Class Switching

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Advanced Class Switching

MeanMartian's Avatar


MeanMartian
12.15.2011 , 05:21 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Invitcted View Post
I'm deeply saddened that 4 days away from launch people who have obviously preordered the game don't understand that your advanced class is functionally different with different abilities and different core mechanics then your base classes other AC.

For example a Bounty hunter has 2 AC's; Power tech and merc.

Powertech; doesn't use cover, has a lot of shortrange/melee abilities, only uses one pistol and can dps or tank

Merc; Uses cover, has mostly long range abilities, duel wields and can heal or dps.

For the feared wow comparison this is like saying you want to change your character from a hunter to a paladin because 'they have the same story lol'.
They are entirely different classes with different talent trees, abilities, playstyles and mechanics you can't change your class halfway through any other mmo why should you be able too in tor?
Merc's don't use cover.

Now, the comparison you raised is accurate, but it doesn't actually make an argument. Okay, the OP is asking for the option to let his 'paladin' be changed into a 'hunter.' So, why not? The only reason you've given is that no other MMO does that, and I think even you will realize that's a pretty weak reason.

So, now to think of a reason for it. Here goes, it would increase player enjoyment, thus increasing player loyalty and the overall health of the MMO.

Okay, balls back in your court, now come up with a GOOD reason to disallow AC switching.

Pyksel's Avatar


Pyksel
12.15.2011 , 08:14 PM | #22
Getting to level 10 gives you ZERO indication of what or how the advanced class is going to play. The content was designed with the base archetype in mind, not the advanced class.

I may be completely in the minority on this but this is what doesn't make any sense to me:

I level up an Imperial Agent from 1-50 with the intent to go to Sniper. I experience the storyline in all of its glory with the wonderful twists, turns, betrayal, etc. I've reached max level and I decide I want to check out the Operative. I now have to go through the EXACT same content again to get there. One could argue that you could force yourself to choose light vs dark or vice versa in order to get a different outcome but is that really an option?

In a game that is so focused on story it would have made much more sense to tailor the stories to the advanced classes and not the base archetype giving you much more room for replayability.

What about rewarding those who have reached max level the ability to switch their AC (temporarily or permanently) in order to check out the advanced part of their class?

The choice of picking an advanced class is such an important one but the content design around it was not.

Invitcted's Avatar


Invitcted
12.15.2011 , 08:25 PM | #23
Yeah I made a mistake, I started out with an IA comparison and then changed it halfway through and I was speaking like a pretentious *** so it makes sense for people to call me out EDIT; I'm Australian so it was also late >.>.
The rest of my point was entirely valid though.

Reasons to disallow AC switching;
~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.
Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).
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Pyksel's Avatar


Pyksel
12.15.2011 , 08:30 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Invitcted View Post
Yeah I made a mistake, I started out with an IA comparison and then changed it halfway through and I was speaking like a pretentious *** so it makes sense for people to call me out EDIT; I'm Australian so it was also late >.>.
The rest of my point was entirely valid though.

Reasons to disallow AC switching;
~BW wants you to roll alts, BW wants to keep you playing as long as possible (which you can't fault them for they're a business) rolling a new character and leveling them up will consume more of your time, simple carrot on a stick model.

~It would directly lead to a rise in ninja looting in pugs (which would exasperate the 'companion' issue) , although the same argument could be made for duel speccing I guess but the point is it wouldn't help

~FotM rerolls would be crazy; 'omg they buffed sniper engineering!?!?' all the operatives re roll which in turn leads to more ninja looting as they desperately try to gear up their new snipers. Now I'm sure I'm going to get plenty of responses to this like 'I'd never do that' but lets face the truth here it will happen no matter how much indignation we have.

~It will lead to people no knowing there class; Now I'm not in the best position right now to make that call in most people's eyes here because of my fundamental gaffe up above. But Like I said in my first post ACs are different (granted somewhat less so they then could be by sharing some abilities and having the same resource management), part of the leveling process is learning how to play your class you aren't going to get that with instant rerolls.
Do you really want a marauder who wants to try tanking despite never playing it before in marauder gear (trying to get some immortal gear in your pug) tanking for the first time ever with no idea what they're doing?

~It takes away the meaning of the choice; By choosing to play an assassin you chose to play a primarily melee class with some (mostly instant cast proc based spells) with stealth and tanking options, if you want to play a healing spell caster you should have to level a healing spell caster like everyone else who wanted to play a healing spell caster did (and vice-versa).

Great points and I don't think anyone is arguing the important nature of the decision of the AC. I think the point is, if it were that important, why wasn't the content designed around it so that when you DID level up again as the alternate advanced class you would have an entirely different storyline to work through.

Invitcted's Avatar


Invitcted
12.15.2011 , 08:36 PM | #25
Story is important in ToR I'm not a 'lollore' player but the class story finishes (for now) at max level and lets face it you will spend more time at max level then you will leveling (unless you're an altaholic and/or don't care about endgame. Neither type of player would have much of a reason to reroll at 50 all things considered).
There is really only so far one can take the 'but it's the same story why should I have to play it again' argument
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Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
12.15.2011 , 08:37 PM | #26
They Devs said back in beta they added the stupid proofing so they did not need t have any kind of AC swaping, if you pick the wrong AC re-roll

they are ADVANCED CLASSES, not spec they are CLASSES

Pyksel's Avatar


Pyksel
12.15.2011 , 08:47 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
They Devs said back in beta they added the stupid proofing so they did not need t have any kind of AC swaping, if you pick the wrong AC re-roll

they are ADVANCED CLASSES, not spec they are CLASSES
Then why wasn't the content designed around the ADVANCED CLASSES and not the base archetype?

Invitcted's Avatar


Invitcted
12.15.2011 , 09:05 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Pyksel View Post
Then why wasn't the content designed around the ADVANCED CLASSES and not the base archetype?
Same reason as everything else ever? Money.

Your asking for more time spend voice recording (almost doubling it in fact) and more time spent developing individual AC class quests.
BW doesn't have infinite time or money to get the game out.
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Fentz's Avatar


Fentz
12.15.2011 , 09:15 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor View Post
Is there any chance of seeing this added to the game?

As far as I know, there are no story differences between advanced classes--so there's no reason to prohibit it.
chaning advanced class is like switching to a whole new class

EchoLimit's Avatar


EchoLimit
12.16.2011 , 12:31 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Pyksel View Post
Great points and I don't think anyone is arguing the important nature of the decision of the AC. I think the point is, if it were that important, why wasn't the content designed around it so that when you DID level up again as the alternate advanced class you would have an entirely different storyline to work through.
This is exactly the point i was going to make. Comparing switching ACs to switching between more traditional class structures in an mmo is not the same. The playstyle of the ACs are both similiar until you get at least midway through the game, and so whereas if they were two seperate classes you'd have multiple sets of abilities/skills, here 70% of them are the same. It's just not fun leveling the same class over and over just because you want to experience another 'tree' of the class.
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