No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

This is all fine and dandy if all 4 players are respecting the mechanic. But as has been pointed out ..some players will take the choice that gives the "greater" chance because they say thier definition of need is different. I would like to know what makes thier definition superior.

If the character present in the instance is already fully geared, then thier need is probably not greater. Therefore they should not be taking the choice that provides a "greater" chance.

Whatever thier motivations ..they are not, in turn, reciprocating that respect.

His comment about 'epic gear' was related to orange being epic in WoW (apparently) and not how it should be treated here. Something you carefully omitted. No orange gear isn't inherently epic gear but it can be configured that way in this game.

Because 'some players' decided that the orange custom system was nice to allow them to retain their appearance doesn't mean that is the point of the system. He goes to great pains to explain that mod'ing is the point of the system and you are ignoring it because some people like the side benefit.

There is no other gear in the game that is fully mod-able. None. This isn't a matter of opinion it is a fact. A developer came out to explain why the change was made and did point out some tangential benefits as well (appearance) but that isn't the impetus behind the system.

All gear has an appearance - orange is the only one that can be adjusted to make it viable for your class. Functionality trumps aesthetics every time.

Having orange gear drop with no mods and then having mods drop separately would remove this issue entirely.

It also gives people that wouldn't otherwise have wanted a particular orange piece a chance at the enhancement (which usually isn't class specific).

Players who are choosing Need based on their own criteria aren't saying their definition is "superior", they're saying it's equal to a differing one. They're saying their want of higher stats for their companion or a mod for themselves or a look for themselves is equal in priority to someone else's want of higher stats or a class-specific item.

Arguments based on whether a need is really a need are pointless; each player determines their needs for themselves. That's why they have the right to stake a claim to something they want for reasons of their own, and it's equally as valid as someone else's claim for different reasons.

Agreed you cannot roll need on another classes gear. Its MO group etiquette. Its called Ninjaing. Ninjas should be shunned and not grouped with. Kicked out of guilds and ostracized.

We have to police this game ourselves and refuse to play with those that break the social norms. I propose economice sanctions!!

Which is why it is acceptable to roll need even if some of the mods aren't for your class.

I continue to be stunned that this concept is so confusing to so many people. I've played MMO's for a long time for many years and never ran into such an odd paradigm as I see here regarding loot rolls. I'm from EQ/EQ2 (and others before that) but never played WoW for more than 3hrs and couldn't stand the community.

I have a feeling that it is the remnants of that community that are having an issue grasping the 'common good of the group' mentality because I haven't seen it reflected to this extreme anywhere else.

I don't believe I ever took the position that you couldn't. I personally wouldn't do it if the mods on it were clearly defaulting it towards another class because it would be obvious to me the intent of the designer.

I do take exception to it being treated as fluff 'pretty' gear and that being as important as the stats. Losing out on a piece of gear because someone wants to look pretty isn't conducive to a good group make-up.

The reason behind the need button is to give you a greater chance at an item. By pressing it you are saying that your need/want is greater than the others. If they thought is were equal they would press greed like everyone else.

Your absolutely right ...that is what the greed button is for.

Actually, Malabricus, "ninjaing" is defined in MMOs as "taking something to which you are not entitled." Its most common application is waiting til everyone else rolls Greed, then rolling Need, winning the item and leaving the group.

In this case, an item whose stats aren't optimal for your class might still be very useful for a companion. If it's an orange item, it might be useful for either aesthetic purposes or because of one or more mods in it. As a result, it's much more difficult to apply the term "loot ninja" as it's been classically used.