Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kinetic Ward/ Dark Ward


LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 01:36 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by oddmyth View Post
So I asked where you pulled this 22% number and are telling me that your base shield chance is 24%?

Did you mean 22%? Or did you mean 24% originally?

Might want to try raising that 24% up, defense caps at 30% and starts hitting diminishing returns around 23%. Shield/Absorb cap at 50% and hit diminishing returns around 45%. Since we have such a high base defense, we don't need to concentrate on +def as hard as you might think, however most sin/shadow tanks still do. Thus we take spiky damage when our shields are down.

What we want to do is smooth that damage down, on the two roll system you want to get the most efficient use of your stat points. Thus if you are at 22% +def or 44% +shield/absorb, then you should concentrate your stat point allotment elsewhere to help smooth your damage.

Assuming you are at 22% +def or higher:

If you are serious about tanking you use a Fort Stim (provides 43 defense, Rakata Fort Stim is 56), you can't get any other secondary tanking stat from a stim. You want to use that to your advantage, if you are at 22% +def or higher then you can swap out that 43 +def because you are going to hit diminishing returns if you don't. Those 43 stat points are equivalent to another 2% shield chance.

Go get your Rakata implants from dailies. That's 4% shield chance right there.

If you have really high absorb you may want to bring that number down and add some +shield. Mod your gear as you see fit, but the reality is you really do need more +shield. 24% is just not enough to tank effectively.

Currently with stim I'm sitting at
25% def
32% shield
44% absorb

I'm still working on my second Rakata implant so those number will change shortly to:

24.5% def
34% shield
44% absorb

As I've mentioned elsewhere, yes DW/KW falling off rapidly is a problem. A problem with many possible developer side solutions. But we are looking past the end of our nose here if we don't understand how we can make sin/shadow tanking better right now.
all that aside what you said on the last paragraph is all the matters. Are we broken class no we aren't just no on par with the others in AOE pull. The issue that i'm really trying to fix is the DW/KW falling off rapidly as you stated. Thats all i care about, That right there.

The KW/DW is my only concern at this moment. Can i still tank groups? Sure but i would like it if KW/DW didnt drop like flies.
DDE

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
01.26.2012 , 01:46 PM | #12
My question is what pulls are you talking about that DW falls off too fast, which encounter are you talking about? Even the packs of AOE dogs etc in EV don't make my DW fall off usually (I have ~28% defense, 37.5% shield (57.5% with DW) and 38% absorb)...

Defense since it is the first roll is useful in keeping it up, use your electrocute and your spike to reduce hits even more and I just have not found a single encounter where (with a little pre planning) I had trouble keeping DW up so far in this game, outside of pvp with 2-3 mercs shooting at me etc.

I'm not trying to say you don't have a point (I'd love not having to spam energy on DW... more pew pew) but I just don't see where the fight currently exists that we lose DW completely for more than 1-2 seconds in the game as it exists today (unless you face pull a second group).

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 01:52 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Windkull View Post
My question is what pulls are you talking about that DW falls off too fast, which encounter are you talking about? Even the packs of AOE dogs etc in EV don't make my DW fall off usually (I have ~28% defense, 37.5% shield (57.5% with DW) and 38% absorb)...

Defense since it is the first roll is useful in keeping it up, use your electrocute and your spike to reduce hits even more and I just have not found a single encounter where (with a little pre planning) I had trouble keeping DW up so far in this game, outside of pvp with 2-3 mercs shooting at me etc.
I seriously do not know how you didnt come to this problem yet. All the other shadows/ assassins i know know this is a fact. Yes there a way around it but KW/DW is useless in focus fire groups. Have you ever pulled a group of 3 gunner type mods who are all raining on you with unload? DW gets eaten up in seconds cause of that.



Quote: Originally Posted by Zilod View Post
kragga palace second boss can drop dark ward in matter of seconds, many aoe pulls in that op do the same, kaon big pulls do the same, here and there there are champs who eat our ward for breakfast

true that generally you can cc, but in op, if you have good dps you can just aoe them and save time... i dont think it is really a proof of balance if 1 tank need cc to be good while another doesnt
^^
this happens all the time. i just want KW/DW to be reworked is all. No harm of foul
DDE

DarthVenizen's Avatar


DarthVenizen
01.26.2012 , 01:59 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by LordXalas View Post
all that aside what you said on the last paragraph is all the matters. Are we broken class no we aren't just no on par with the others in AOE pull. The issue that i'm really trying to fix is the DW/KW falling off rapidly as you stated. Thats all i care about, That right there.

The KW/DW is my only concern at this moment. Can i still tank groups? Sure but i would like it if KW/DW didnt drop like flies.
are they on par with us with self healing?
[COLOR="Green"]Jedi Covenant
Vencu - Darkness Tank
SWG & SWTOR Launch player JTL/GSF Junkie

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 02:00 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVenizen View Post
are they on par with us with self healing?
our self healing is just another form of mitigation. Juggernauts get endure pain which is basically another form of "self healing" as some people like to call it. I call it keeping head of the curve.

If you have worries about the self healing we have then make a thread that all tanks should get self healing as well.

How about we have the KW/DW stay as it is but with no charges.
DDE

Windkull's Avatar


Windkull
01.26.2012 , 02:58 PM | #16
Because of the bigger boost to shield, I'd rather have it changed slightly to maybe have a few more charges, or a way to replenish charges and duration... I actually support removing the recast timer on it, that way for true AOE pulls we can sacrifice agro and damage for keeping it up... I think that would be a pretty balanced solution.

I would think that making it 12 charges, lasting 30 seconds, but with a 5 second cooldown etc would be very fair, if you spam it you will waste energy and be inefficient, but with 12 charges available every 5 seconds, you should never run out.

As for unload spam, I guess I've just gotten used to having a relic up for those situations, and having self heal up if it does drop a bit early. I generaly don't trigger my force lightning as soon as it hits 3 charges but rather wait for a time when I need the heal to do it, and I like to use it in conjunction with overload saber... For AOE packs, they take long enough to kill that deflection is pretty much up for every pull, and the odd one where its not up, I can always force speed away for long enough to get a few heals if needed

Harwel's Avatar


Harwel
01.26.2012 , 03:07 PM | #17
The could keep the basic mechanic and just add an internal cooldown (such as many other abilities have) to the removal of charges. If they just made it so that could not lose more one charge every 1.5 seconds, regardless of how many times you shield, then the 8 charges should last the entire 12 second ability cooldown.

They could keep their whole "short-duration buff with charges" mechanic without hurting our ability to tank large trash pulls. This solution would also have basically no impact on our ability to tank most bosses.

oddmyth's Avatar


oddmyth
01.26.2012 , 04:57 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Harwel View Post
The could keep the basic mechanic and just add an internal cooldown (such as many other abilities have) to the removal of charges. If they just made it so that could not lose more one charge every 1.5 seconds, regardless of how many times you shield, then the 8 charges should last the entire 12 second ability cooldown.

They could keep their whole "short-duration buff with charges" mechanic without hurting our ability to tank large trash pulls. This solution would also have basically no impact on our ability to tank most bosses.
The problem with this idea is that at that point its really just pressing a button every 12 seconds. There's no risk involved.

Once you are just pressing a button every 12 seconds for the sake of simply pressing that button with risk or reward, then you might as well just not have a button at all. Its adding complexity without risk and thus without reward. Its simply not exciting and that's why devices like this idea have all but been removed from MMO gaming.

LordXalas's Avatar


LordXalas
01.26.2012 , 04:59 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by oddmyth View Post
The problem with this idea is that at that point its really just pressing a button every 12 seconds. There's no risk involved.

Once you are just pressing a button every 12 seconds for the sake of simply pressing that button with risk or reward, then you might as well just not have a button at all. Its adding complexity without risk and thus without reward. Its simply not exciting and that's why devices like this idea have all but been removed from MMO gaming.
right holy shield for paladins in wow was like this but also gave a chance to do damage also. Future patches made the whole thing a passive instead.
DDE

Harwel's Avatar


Harwel
01.26.2012 , 06:09 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by oddmyth View Post
The problem with this idea is that at that point its really just pressing a button every 12 seconds. There's no risk involved.

Once you are just pressing a button every 12 seconds for the sake of simply pressing that button with risk or reward, then you might as well just not have a button at all. Its adding complexity without risk and thus without reward. Its simply not exciting and that's why devices like this idea have all but been removed from MMO gaming.
By this logic, we shouldn't have press any buttons to maintain a normal rotation either, since there's no risk and it's not exciting. Just pressing a button every 1.5 seconds for the sake of pressing buttons...