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Huge bug with Ataru Form

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ManOSteal's Avatar


ManOSteal
01.25.2012 , 03:01 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by pangwl View Post
Why are we going about +crit vs. +power?

Isn't +Accuracy rating the better of the two?
as carnage specc im lvl 36 and my acuracy is already at 100% i literally have like no reason to put more points in it. let me rephrase i have no reason to put any points in it as i always hit with normal attacks and with my specials i even negate their defenses with a 106% rating. yet again i have no pints in acuracy. although if you can pick it up somewhere it is nothing to shake a stick at.
ị█ị██████iiΘịị█ị_|\███████████DAMN THE MAN SAVE THE EMPIRE███████████)

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 03:03 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
That's not math. That's you deciding that 25% crit is the magical end of crit's usefulness.

"get the less return you see because you are already critting more often."

First half of this: Yes

Second half of this: No.

"Because you already crit more often" is an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

---

I'm done. I've decided that this is no longer worth my time.
see you lack the ability to understand what a diminishing return is, because of that you can never understand the math behind it. Because you lack understanding you just claim its wrong. Just because you cannot understand it doesn't make it wrong.


I used 25% as a starting point i never said that is all that was good, however you get greater diminishing returns the more you get. Until you can understand simply math you will never be able to understand the more complex stuff. Your video is garbage, its acutally comical how terrible it is.

EasymodeX's Avatar


EasymodeX
01.25.2012 , 03:19 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
it never will. by the math you need 100% crit damage and you would need to have over 50% chance to crit at the start to make it mathmatically possible.
What the ****.

I have 110% crit damage on Massacre. 120% when I hit a relic.

Also, a higher base chance to crit reduces the value of each percent of crit, working against my prior statement.

Also, you mentioned 1% damage which isn't actually relevant, since the stat tradeoff is power. Power does not directly translate to "% damage".

Don't even start.

darthhavok's Avatar


darthhavok
01.25.2012 , 03:20 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
see you lack the ability to understand what a diminishing return is, because of that you can never understand the math behind it. Because you lack understanding you just claim its wrong. Just because you cannot understand it doesn't make it wrong.


I used 25% as a starting point i never said that is all that was good, however you get greater diminishing returns the more you get. Until you can understand simply math you will never be able to understand the more complex stuff. Your video is garbage, its acutally comical how terrible it is.
Now I COULD be wrong but.....isn't deminishing returns basically this:

(Hypothetical Numbers btw) If you have 25% crit chance and you add 10 crit rating and get 5% more to be at 30% crit chance then add 10 more rating and only get 4% to be at a total of 34% crit chance. Basically the more crit % you have the less % you get from each point of rating.

That's WoW's definition of diminishing returns I believe.
Y'all can't make me have a signature!!!!! No way no how!!!!

StrandtheMan's Avatar


StrandtheMan
01.25.2012 , 03:22 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post



I'm not 100% sure that's the right choice but nobody knows what accuracy is good for right now. I'm just extremely opposed to the idea that the devs would give us a ridiculous amount of accuracy while leaving it a useless stat.
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this yet as I noticed some people apparently don't realize that having higher than 100% Accuracy is a good thing.

Every little bit of Accuracy (regardless of character) will make your attacks that much harder to resist, dodge/evade, or mitigate by your intended target. Proof?...just highlight the stat on your character page.

EasymodeX's Avatar


EasymodeX
01.25.2012 , 03:30 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by darthhavok View Post
Now I COULD be wrong but.....isn't deminishing returns basically this:.
There are 2 types of diminishing returns. The first type in current MMORPGs is a specific characteristic of conversion formulae -- in SWTOR, the conversion of all "RATING" stats to "PERCENT". Surge rating returns less and less % for every rating point you have.

The second type is more general: diminishing marginal returns. This is more a function of economics and alternative cost. Diminishing marginal returns refers to "HOW MUCH DOES THAT LAST POINT MATTER?" Say you have 100 strength. A 20 str buff will increase your damage by 20%. Say you have 1,000,000 strength. The 20 str buff will increase your damage by .002%. It basically says that stacking more of the same stuff isn't effective compared to stacking the OTHER stat that multiplies it.

Hizoka was referring to some flavor of diminishing marginal returns, even if it was irrelevant to the argument (when evaluating marginal returns, you need to know what the base value is -- do you have 100str or 1 mil? in this case, no one's put forth general base values for crit in the first place).

The other poster was highlighting the fact that SWTOR actually has straight DR included in the conversion formulae, which Hizoka is more or less mentally ignoring.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 03:37 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by StrandtheMan View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this yet as I noticed some people apparently don't realize that having higher than 100% Accuracy is a good thing.

Every little bit of Accuracy (regardless of character) will make your attacks that much harder to resist, dodge/evade, or mitigate by your intended target. Proof?...just highlight the stat on your character page.
No one is disputing that. but your target only has a certain amount of resistances to bypass. What the issue was is as Carnage you get enough accuracy to bypass all the defenses you can at an early stage. Also which Accuracy stat do you pay attention too? Basic accurcacy, base of 90% or Special Accuracy base at 100%

Base player defense is 5%, Sorc have 10%. You only need 105% to bypass that(not inculding tanks, lets leave them out of this, they are made to take and avoid damage) With full Battlemaster, Ataru, Narrow Hatred, I will have 105% Normal accuracy(115% special). You know what that means? in order to have enough accuracy to never miss a target, you have to roll Carnage. I have no idea what the base defense of a boss in an OP is, I jsut feel there is no way to reach that point where you never miss using Basic Accuracy.

If all our attacks use special Accuracy then you only need to get 5% accuracy(150 accuracy rating) meaning Carnage already reaches this after getting Narrow Hatred and Ataru Form at lvl 20. This sounds more reasonable and realistic. So whats Basica Accuracy for anyways? We dont do regular WoW type White damage(try it right click a mob in combat, itll do Assault as default)

pangwl's Avatar


pangwl
01.25.2012 , 03:38 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by ManOSteal View Post
as carnage specc im lvl 36 and my acuracy is already at 100% i literally have like no reason to put more points in it. let me rephrase i have no reason to put any points in it as i always hit with normal attacks and with my specials i even negate their defenses with a 106% rating. yet again i have no pints in acuracy. although if you can pick it up somewhere it is nothing to shake a stick at.
Yes. Enhancement mod.

Quote: Originally Posted by StrandtheMan View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this yet as I noticed some people apparently don't realize that having higher than 100% Accuracy is a good thing.

Every little bit of Accuracy (regardless of character) will make your attacks that much harder to resist, dodge/evade, or mitigate by your intended target. Proof?...just highlight the stat on your character page.
I mentioned that, but apparently, no-believer... don't ask me why *gasps*
Arradan | Jedi Sentinel | Republic Centurion

Costello's Avatar


Costello
01.25.2012 , 03:41 PM | #69
Has anyone noticed the increase in speed from defensive forms while in Ataru Form cause I played from levels 1 to 50 with a friend and saw no noticable change in my speed against his when I went into the form with defensive forums.

This could be a bug as well that needs looking into.

On the whole Carnage and Ataru form really needs some looking into for the most acrobatic of the forms it doesn't seem to offer as much as the other forms do and with it mis firing or not working at all makes it in need of the devs to work on it.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 03:43 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Costello View Post
Has anyone noticed the increase in speed from defensive forms while in Ataru Form cause I played from levels 1 to 50 with a friend and saw no noticable change in my speed against his when I went into the form with defensive forums.

This could be a bug as well that needs looking into.

On the whole Carnage and Ataru form really needs some looking into for the most acrobatic of the forms it doesn't seem to offer as much as the other forms do and with it mis firing or not working at all makes it in need of the devs to work on it.
turn off sprint. it only works in combat where sprint isnt applied